Dominant dogs

[GoodGurl]

My problem is this, i have 2 jack russell's, a bitch (18 months old) and a dog (4 years old) everything has been great up untill she had her 2nd season which ended a month ago (she is booked in to be spayed in march) they have begun trying to claim dominance and neither will give in and it end's in a bloodbath, i try to separate them as soon as it kick's off but by then it's already too late, this seem's to be a daily occurrence which start's with the dog growling at the bitch then all hell break's loose, every day it's get's more intense. has anyone got suggestion's on what can be done to stop it, i don't really want them to be separated as this would cause more problem's when they get together again.

[ditchcrawler]

My problem is this, i have 2 jack russell's, a bitch (18 months old) and a dog (4 years old) everything has been great up untill she had her 2nd season which ended a month ago (she is booked in to be spayed in march) they have begun trying to claim dominance and neither will give in and it end's in a bloodbath, i try to separate them as soon as it kick's off but by then it's already too late, this seem's to be a daily occurrence which start's with the dog growling at the bitch then all hell break's loose, every day it's get's more intense. has anyone got suggestion's on what can be done to stop it, i don't really want them to be separated as this would cause more problem's when they get together again.

A friend of mine had a bitch and her mother, everything was fine until the younger one was about two and they started fighting with each other, they were Jack Russell's, in the end they had to give one away, I cant remember which.

[Grace and Favour]

My problem is this, i have 2 jack russell's, a bitch (18 months old) and a dog (4 years old) everything has been great up untill she had her 2nd season which ended a month ago (she is booked in to be spayed in march) they have begun trying to claim dominance and neither will give in and it end's in a bloodbath, i try to separate them as soon as it kick's off but by then it's already too late, this seem's to be a daily occurrence which start's with the dog growling at the bitch then all hell break's loose, every day it's get's more intense. has anyone got suggestion's on what can be done to stop it, i don't really want them to be separated as this would cause more problem's when they get together again.

Arrange for one to have a new home.........

[GoodGurl]

Arrange for one to have a new home.........

not an option, i need someone to advise me on how to control it.

[Grace and Favour]

not an option, i need someone to advise me on how to control it.

 

Re-homing one may not be your preferred option

 

But it may be the right one for the dogs

[GoodGurl]

Re-homing one may not be your preferred option

 

But it may be the right one for the dogs

well i was hoping it was just a phase they are going through and needed someone to confirm it or not

[ditchcrawler]

not an option, i need someone to advise me on how to control it.

You will never do it and the dogs lives will be hell.

You may not believe it but the dog will be just as happy with someone else.

[dmr]

I believe Jack Russells are a bit like that!

As the current style of this forum is more about arguments and wit than helpful advice I will say "you should have got a lurcher".

To be more constructive....our lurcher was hard work when young and we found a lot of useful ideas on the various dog forums. You could certainly try a few posts and see if anyone can help. As a last resort there are behaviour experts who will visit you to sort things out but this gets very expensive.

Is there any chance this will sort itself out when the bitch gets "done".

Has the dog been done?

Getting a males bits cut off always seems a bit brutal to me!!! You could get a vet to do a short term "chemical castration" to see if that helps. If it does then it really is off with the bits.

 

...........Dave

[ditchcrawler]

I believe Jack Russells are a bit like that!

As the current style of this forum is more about arguments and wit than helpful advice I will say "you should have got a lurcher".

To be more constructive....our lurcher was hard work when young and we found a lot of useful ideas on the various dog forums. You could certainly try a few posts and see if anyone can help. As a last resort there are behaviour experts who will visit you to sort things out but this gets very expensive.

Is there any chance this will sort itself out when the bitch gets "done".

Has the dog been done?

Getting a males bits cut off always seems a bit brutal to me!!! You could get a vet to do a short term "chemical castration" to see if that helps. If it does then it really is off with the bits.

 

...........Dave

I think at 4+ years it may be a bit late to change his behaviour by chopping his nuts. Probably as much of a mind set as hormones.

[Ray T]

Millie our JRT can be aggressive when she meets other dogs in her home. These are usually a friends Parsons Terrier and a smooth haired Jack. (both these are neutered males)

 

Millie has been spayed as well.

 

When they visit each time we put a basket muzzle on each dog. They can then sort out who is top dog without drawing blood.

 

This works for us, however others may disagree...........

Edited December 15, 2012 by Ray T

[GoodGurl]

he was done 2 years ago so hormones have settled down, i will try the basket muzzel as this cant go on.

[Starcoaster]

GG is the dog neutered already? If you can physically keep them apart or muzzled until the bitch is spayed, it might resolve. How did you keep them apart when the bitch was in season (if the dog is entire)?

[carlt]

As the current style of this forum is more about arguments and wit than helpful advice I will say "you should have got a lurcher".

Perhaps you could explain why our seyed fostered lurcher bitch insists on repeatedly attacking one of my lurcher dogs then, despite several months of careful socialisation.

 

The bitch JRT may settle down after speying but there is no guarantee.

 

How are they with strange dogs?

 

Getting a males bits cut off always seems a bit brutal to me!!!

Far less invasive than a female neutering and both are the responsible action to take.

[Lady Muck]

Re-homing one may not be your preferred option

 

But it may be the right one for the dogs

 

A friend had to rehome one of her staffy bitches after it nearly killed her other one. She had never intended to own two dogs, but one was stolen so she got another and the stolen one turned up completely unexpected, six months later.

 

It was heartbreaking for her because she loved both of them, but if you 'd seen the state the dog was in.

[Arthur Brown]

Unless you sort or more likely separate the dogs it will be RSPCA vs You for animal cruelty. Chose one dog, retire or re-home the other.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Konrad Z Lorenz, the dog behaviorist claimed that whereas males would fight until one was dominant then stop, bitches would fight to the death. He lost an Alsatian bitch in a kennel fight and I know of a beagle bitch killed by a bitch she lived with.

[carlt]

Konrad Z Lorenz, the dog behaviorist claimed that whereas males would fight until one was dominant then stop, bitches would fight to the death.

Funny, I know of an ornithologist going by that name (he was the first to describe and demonstrate imprinting) but I was unaware of his talents with dogs.

 

Looking around the net I see his interests were much broader than I was previously aware.

 

I've always been fascinated with his work with geese and will now look deeper into his work with other animals.

 

Cheers!

[ridders]

our vet had mentioned an air freshener type plug in which mimicked the dog's mothers hormones, which was supposed to have a calming effect. I would think starcoaster would know of these and whether they'd help.

[Guest]

My problem is this, i have 2 jack russell's, a bitch (18 months old) and a dog (4 years old) everything has been great up untill she had her 2nd season which ended a month ago (she is booked in to be spayed in march) they have begun trying to claim dominance and neither will give in and it end's in a bloodbath, i try to separate them as soon as it kick's off but by then it's already too late, this seem's to be a daily occurrence which start's with the dog growling at the bitch then all hell break's loose, every day it's get's more intense. has anyone got suggestion's on what can be done to stop it, i don't really want them to be separated as this would cause more problem's when they get together again.

 

We found this forum pretty useful leading up to getting our JRT and since. Might be worth joining there and asking the question.

 

http://www.jack-russell-terrier.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

As an aside we have recently being considering getting a rescue JRT as a friend for Dennis but have hesitated and hung back for fear of exactly the same type of situation developing.

 

Hope you get sorted.

[cheshire~rose]

We used to have two dogs that fought. They were bull terriers and I remember several occasions when they "locked"

 

We used to keep them apart using a stairgate. We would move them and the stairgate around the house to suit. They would even kiss each other through the stairgate - neither had to be dominant as they had separate places.

 

It affected me really badly and even now I freeze if I hear dogs fighting. I read your first post and I could not reply to it as it upset me so much. I loved both my dogs to bits but I would not do it again, one would have to be rehomed.

 

My heart goes out to you having this problem. I hope you do get something sorted but I know if it were me I would have to rehome one of them, even though I truly understand how that cannot possibly be conceivable to you.

[Guest]

I wonder if it makes a difference if they grow up together or if you add one to the 'pack'?

 

This is what has worried us about getting another - Dennis feeling his nose has been pushed out by a new comer??

[OldPeculier]

Going out on a limb here.

 

These dogs need to establish their pack order. If you keep stopping them from fighting they will never sort it out. Either remove one or if you have the stomach for it, let them go for it.

 

As one is a dog, they will most likely sort it out. Bitches will fight to the death. Make sure the submissive one has a safe place like a bed that you as pack leader will defend.

 

Above all, you have to be the dominant pack leader. If they are preoccupied with pleasing you they will have less time for squabbles.

 

Good luck!

[Catrin]

Yes, Lorenz did a lot of studies of dogs - I read one of his books "Man Meets Dog" many years ago - but it was published in 1949. Many of the theories of dog behaviour developed in the past have now been superceded.

 

STUFF ABOUT WOLVES

 

We know that dogs are very closely related to wolves - however, studies of wolf behaviour were for a long time only done on captive groups, where the wolves were not related, and fought to develop a hierarchy. More recent studies have been done on wolves in the wild - where packs are effectively a breeding pair (yes, the 'alpha' male and female) - with their own family. Almost always the other wolves in the pack are offspring of the pair. This includes young wolves old enough to mate, but who seem to remain with the pack for a year or so - helping to rear the youngest litter. The wolves in these packs rarely fight within the pack (but may fight very aggressively with other packs), and cooperate on hunting and rearing the cubs.

 

We still hear from some dog trainers that 'you need to dominate the dog', 'dogs are establishing their place in the hierarchy', 'they all try to be the alpha dog'. All of this is derived from the old model of wolf behaviour, now known to be wrong.

 

Dogs are closely related to wolves, but, not the wolves that we can study today. Why? Because as dogs have evolved by selective breeding by humans, the wolf packs that were around when dogs were first becoming domesticated were also subjected to evolutionary pressures of humans. Dogs were probably domesticated about 15,000 years ago, but it seems likely that there were wolves who tolerated humans hanging around the encampments for long before that - perhaps even a 'sub-species'.

 

These wolves would have been much easier to hunt - they were easier to find than the groups that hung about in the frozen wastes. So while they were the ancestors of the domestic dog, these 'human friendly wolves' were also wiped out. The wolves we have today are not descended from the same stock as the domestic dog.

 

All of this is from the book "In defence of dogs", and changed my understanding of how to understand and train my dog.

 

END OF STUFF ABOUT WOLVES

 

I have to be honest, I am very disturbed when dogs are very aggressive. If your dogs are fighting, how can you be sure that one of them is not going to attack someone?

Edited December 16, 2012 by Catrin

[Guest]

All of this is from the book "In defence of dogs", and changed my understanding of how to understand and train my dog.

 

Curious so I've ordered it - only £6.29.

[larkshall]

our vet had mentioned an air freshener type plug in which mimicked the dog's mothers hormones, which was supposed to have a calming effect. I would think starcoaster would know of these and whether they'd help.

 

 

You are talking about a pheromone plug in, or DAP. These can help with nervous dogs, but Won't be much good with fighting dogs.

 

I think GG needs to basket muzzle both as a last resort. GG also needs to show she is top dog, and enforce discipline strictly, without fear or favour. Spaying the bitch may help, but should be done after first season. Else it is rehoming the younger dog. JRT's a renowned for this behaviour, I've seen them continue to fight even when a hose turned on them!