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HFL 9kVA generator


billh

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I acquired this generator some time ago , just started on it with a view to installing in a workboat.

It has a 3 cylinder water cooled Mitsubishi diesel in a sound proofed fibreglass case.

I've got the engine running fine, speed is steady at 3000rpm, but the generator, supposed to be 230v only puts out about 35v, with or without a load. The voltage regulator is encased in resin , all visible parts appear to be physically ok. There are no signs of overheating in the regulator or the (brushless) alternator.

Is it likely that the windings need "flashing" with a 12v battery because it has been stood unused for a while?

Anyone out there got an idea what to do? Contact with HFL has so far not helped, I suspect they may only be interested in flogging me a new genset.

Thanks.

Bill

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If you are getting voltage then it does not need flashing.

 

Also unlikely to be the flying diodes as failure of even one will kill the output.

 

As above if it has a capacitor test and or replace that first.

 

Then test the AVR.

 

Thanks for the pointers. It's actually from a road vehicle, with radiator and electric fans. I'll have a look for the capacitor tomorrow, I assume a fairly large one like a "motor-run" capacitor?

The only ones I've seen so far are quite small and embedded in the voltage regulator module . There are quite a few wires going into the alternator stator , working out what they do looks like fun.

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Turns out not to be an electrical problem at all! Closer inspection while running suggested that although the engine was turning at the required 3000 rpm,the alternator was only managing about 300.

The coupling between them contains 4 nylon(?) link pins which had disintegrated and melted. The alternator was being driven by a small amount of friction in the coupling. I am confident that new nylon parts in the coupling will resolve the problem. Thank you for your help.

Bill

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Turns out not to be an electrical problem at all! Closer inspection while running suggested that although the engine was turning at the required 3000 rpm,the alternator was only managing about 300.

The coupling between them contains 4 nylon(?) link pins which had disintegrated and melted. The alternator was being driven by a small amount of friction in the coupling. I am confident that new nylon parts in the coupling will resolve the problem. Thank you for your help.

Bill

Success story........

I bought some 25mm nylon 6 rod from RS Components ( still want to call them "Radiospares" ) and machined the so-called pins. It was a toil to get the pins to stay in the coupling while aligning the generator to the engine, but a bit of masking tape to hold them in place solved that. As soon as the engine started , power was produced, steady at 243v , so I'm quite pleased with that. Thanks again for your interest. Questions to follow about earthing this machine? One pole to earth or fully floating ( well it is going in a boat!) or what?

Bill

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Success story........

I bought some 25mm nylon 6 rod from RS Components ( still want to call them "Radiospares" ) and machined the so-called pins. It was a toil to get the pins to stay in the coupling while aligning the generator to the engine, but a bit of masking tape to hold them in place solved that. As soon as the engine started , power was produced, steady at 243v , so I'm quite pleased with that. Thanks again for your interest. Questions to follow about earthing this machine? One pole to earth or fully floating ( well it is going in a boat!) or what?

Bill

 

 

I shall probably be taken to task (so many opinions on 'leccy matters) but -

 

Earth the genny frame to the boat's earth. Then if you' re really worried take that earth line to a spike in the ground (can't see the point of that latter as everyone's happy to use the inverter / etc when on the move)

How are you connecting the genny into the boat's internal system - hard wired or 2 x 16 amp / 1 x 32 amp connector. If either of the latter the thing should be earthed anyway...

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I shall probably be taken to task (so many opinions on 'leccy matters) but -

 

Earth the genny frame to the boat's earth. Then if you' re really worried take that earth line to a spike in the ground (can't see the point of that latter as everyone's happy to use the inverter / etc when on the move)

How are you connecting the genny into the boat's internal system - hard wired or 2 x 16 amp / 1 x 32 amp connector. If either of the latter the thing should be earthed anyway...

Yes, agree , generator to boat earth, in fact earth everything metallic to the hull. The boat doesn't/won't have it's own electrical system, except perhaps some 12v lights . The plan is to use the genny to supply 110 volt tools and 2HP submersible pumps via a large 240/110ct transformer and also 240v arc welder from a 32a blue connector. A 30mA RCD fitted covering all outlets- is the welder likely to cause RCD tripping in normal use? (it doesn't when land based from the mains RCD). This is possibly a daft question but is there anything to be gained,safety wise, by using a 240/240 isolating transformer between the genny and any 240 appliance? (probably not).

Thank you

Bill

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As well as bonding generator casing/dedicated earth terminal to boat hull, the neutral leg of the AC output would need to be bonded to earth within the generator.

 

This to ensure safe working of the necessary RCD on the AC output legs, before it hooks into your distribution circuits.

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  • 4 years later...

Hello Bill,

I know its been a while now since you wrestled with your HFL generator but i am stuck with one which was manufactured around 1990 which has completely lost the mechanical coupling between the Mitsubishi diesel engine and the generator (the engine still runs ok and has had very little use!). Upon reading your dialogue below I am hoping you might be able to give me some advice and information as support from the Manufacturer is somewhat scarce!!!

Please advise if you are willing to help and i will send my direct email address

Best Regards

Tinker

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28 minutes ago, Tinker Taylor said:

Hello Bill,

I know its been a while now since you wrestled with your HFL generator but i am stuck with one which was manufactured around 1990 which has completely lost the mechanical coupling between the Mitsubishi diesel engine and the generator (the engine still runs ok and has had very little use!). Upon reading your dialogue below I am hoping you might be able to give me some advice and information as support from the Manufacturer is somewhat scarce!!!

Please advise if you are willing to help and i will send my direct email address

Best Regards

Tinker

Might be better if you qoute his post as this will give him a notification, he still logs on, or at least did so last friday.

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On 17/12/2012 at 12:42, billh said:

Yes, agree , generator to boat earth, in fact earth everything metallic to the hull. The boat doesn't/won't have it's own electrical system, except perhaps some 12v lights . The plan is to use the genny to supply 110 volt tools and 2HP submersible pumps via a large 240/110ct transformer and also 240v arc welder from a 32a blue connector. A 30mA RCD fitted covering all outlets- is the welder likely to cause RCD tripping in normal use? (it doesn't when land based from the mains RCD). This is possibly a daft question but is there anything to be gained,safety wise, by using a 240/240 isolating transformer between the genny and any 240 appliance? (probably not).

Thank you

Bill

Quoted just so Bill gets a notification. 

  • Greenie 1
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12 hours ago, Dave Payne said:

Might be better if you qoute his post as this will give him a notification, he still logs on, or at least did so last friday.

Yep, still here. 

As it happens I ran this generator up yesterday- working ok. Since the escapade with the coupling, the cylinder head gasket went, the engine is a Mitsubishi L3e, it was 100 quid for a new gasket- actually fitting it wasn't too bad, did it in a couple of hours

13 hours ago, Tinker Taylor said:

Hello Bill,

I know its been a while now since you wrestled with your HFL generator but i am stuck with one which was manufactured around 1990 which has completely lost the mechanical coupling between the Mitsubishi diesel engine and the generator (the engine still runs ok and has had very little use!). Upon reading your dialogue below I am hoping you might be able to give me some advice and information as support from the Manufacturer is somewhat scarce!!!

Please advise if you are willing to help and i will send my direct email address

Best Regards

Tinker

From your description, the problem is the same as I had, the plastic link pins have sheared in the somewhat unusual coupling design. Assuming the same model, removing the generator from the engine is fairly straightforward. I don't know if you can get OEM parts( at great expense I imagine) but my nylon rods seem to have worked ok. PM me with any questions or just put them on here, others may have better ideas than me.

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Bill,

Many thanks for getting back to me

Here is a brief summary of my challenge and pictures below

The HFL is mounted in a sound proof case as usual, which in turn is mounted inside an engine room on the boat with little clearance including head room and I cannot get the whole unit out through the main engine room door...so I have no choice than to work on it in situ!

Do you know if it would be possible to cut the front off the sound proof box (assuming yours has one), then split the overall unit in two where the engine block bolts up to bell housing/generator half of the unit by sliding the engine half forward to get access and make repairs to the coupling, leaving the bell housing/generator half in place.

Does the genny have a mounting frame in the base of the box?

Then plan to re-locate the engine back on the bell housing and stick the sound proof box back together again, reconnect all services etc

All of the above is a theoretical plan based on known constraints and no reference to how the generator comes apart or goes back together again after repair

FYI - Assuming I can get access via the above process to the coupling I can turn up new nylon or PTFE pins on a Lathe

 

I look forward to hearing back from you

 

IMG_1869.JPG

IMG_1866.JPG

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hi Tinker,

The engine and generator are on 4 flexible mounts in the bottom tray, 12mm studs with nuts to adjust the height.

I would not recommend cutting the tray, especially at the engine end, the reason being that there are cooling ducts built into it . Your second photo shows a black plastic cowl over a fan, this is part of the ducted air system. 

I appreciate the height constraints but the only way I can see is to jack the unit up having disconnected the flexible mounts until the engine can be moved forward separate from the alternator over the bottom tray. Has the set been installed before the engine room was built? Seems odd that you can't get it out now! The one here just fitted through a 2ft square watertight bulkhead doorway, without all its covers on.

Has it got a water cooled silencer on one side? This creates a lot of hot water very quickly and contributes massively to temperatures within the casing.

To be honest, the whole thing would be more convenient to work on if it had no sound proof casing at all- how much noise can you put up with? Anyway, best of luck with it, any more questions just post here or PM me.

Bill

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