Potential Drama Unfolding

[Up-Side-Down]

The view from the webcam overlooking Kings Staith in York http://www.farsondig...orth/Ouse/York/ shows a potentially 'difficult' situation developing.

 

Given that:

 

a) The river is still rising - pretty rapidly

b ) During the last floods, about a month ago when a narrowboat sank just upstream at Museum Gardens, the water level rose on Kings Staith to 3" below the top of the No Entry sign visible in the foreground

c) The boats are currently moored to the riverside bollards

 

what would the experienced boaters amongst the members of the forum do now? I for one would like to learn from this situation in order to make the right decisions in a future, similar predicament.

 

(don't know where the 'emoticons' come from - but it don't belong here and I don't know how to banish it - sorry)

Edited November 25, 2012 by Theo
Remove e/con

[luctor et emergo]

That looks bad. Is it at all possible to get to the boats (waders, dingy?)?

[Up-Side-Down]

That looks bad. Is it at all possible to get to the boats (waders, dingy?)?

 

At the moment there is no problem as the water on the staith is probably less than 1ft deep. There are people on board and the centre cockpit boat has only breasted up sometime this morning.

[matty40s]

The view from the webcam overlooking Kings Staith in York http://www.farsondig...orth/Ouse/York/ shows a potentially 'difficult' situation developing.

 

Given that:

 

a) The river is still rising - pretty rapidly

b ) During the last floods, about a month ago when a narrowboat sank just upstream at Museum Gardens, the water level rose on Kings Staith to 3" below the top of the No Entry sign visible in the foreground

c) The boats are currently moored to the riverside bollards

 

what would the experienced boaters amongst the members of the forum do now? I for one would like to learn from this situation in order to make the right decisions in a future, similar predicament.

 

(don't know where the 'emoticons' come from - but it don't belong here and I don't know how to banish it - sorry)

 

 

Oh dear, I wouldn't be there, however, I wouldn't be where I am at the moment either!!!!

 

Loop ropes round the railings and back to the boat, do not tie to anything that will go underwater.

lash my boat pole (very securely vertically to one of the railing posts, one fore and aft if I had two.

 

failing that, get someone to get on the bridge and drop a secured rope dowwn over one of the bridge supports (not over an arch) and navigate across and sit it out.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Theo

[luctor et emergo]

I suppose that those 'riverside bollards' are underwater then? Will they secure ropes that are pulling up, and away? And if it is a foot deep, adjusting the ropes is going to be a fiddeling in the dark job, not good.

The owners may want to secure the boatpole and gang plank down the side of the boat, if possible, to avoid going over the bank.

[Up-Side-Down]

Another way to monitor the situation is via the York Rowing Club webcam http://www.ycrc.co.uk/webcam which also includes the EA's assessment of the river level - in this case that the river is still rising.

 

It has steadily gone up at one step an hour (at Museum Gardens) since 10.00 this morning

[blackrose]

(don't know where the 'emoticons' come from - but it don't belong here and I don't know how to banish it - sorry)

 

A letter b followed by ) will be read as . Try putting a space between them like this b ).

Edited November 25, 2012 by blackrose

[Guest]

(don't know where the 'emoticons' come from - but it don't belong here and I don't know how to banish it - sorry)

 

 

It's when you do a B followed by a bracket it automatically inserts one.

 

Back OT - I think I would be reluctant to stay on the boat(s) to be honest in that location.

 

If they have to stay and the the NB is tied to the bollards and the level continues to rise they risk the same situation that happened a few week s ago unless they can keep slackening the lines, the problem then is that they couls float over and clear the fence and be floated onto the wharf next to the pub! _ I'm simply not sure how you could prevent that from happening.

 

Ed - I see Luc has covered that....

Edited November 25, 2012 by The Dog House

[Up-Side-Down]

I suppose that those 'riverside bollards' are underwater then? Will they secure ropes that are pulling up, and away? And if it is a foot deep, adjusting the ropes is going to be a fiddeling in the dark job, not good.

The owners may want to secure the boatpole and gang plank down the side of the boat, if possible, to avoid going over the bank.

 

Sorry Luctor et emergo - I meant those 'sticky up to waist height thingys' designed to stop people/cars going over the edge into the river. Not what you or I would moor a boat to at ground level!

 

 

It's when you do a B followed by a bracket it automatically inserts one.

 

Back OT - I think I would be reluctant to stay on the boat(s) to be honest in that location.

 

If they have to stay and the the NB is tied to the bollards and the level continues to rise they risk the same situation that happened a few week s ago unless they can keep slackening the lines, the problem then is that they couls float over and clear the fence and be floated onto the wharf next to the pub! _ I'm simply not sure how you could prevent that from happening.

 

Thanks for the info about the smiley. I'll remember that in future!

 

It was thoughts about what you describe as floating over the fence and into the bar of the pub that prompted my question. The words 'devil' 'deep' 'sea' and 'blue' came into my mind!

[blackrose]

Oh dear, I wouldn't be there, however, I wouldn't be where I am at the moment either!!!!

 

Loop ropes round the railings and back to the boat, do not tie to anything that will go underwater.

lash my boat pole (very securely vertically to one of the railing posts, one fore and aft if I had two.

 

failing that, get someone to get on the bridge and drop a secured rope dowwn over one of the bridge supports (not over an arch) and navigate across and sit it out.

 

That's not a bad idea if there is someone standing on the bow (with a lifejacket) who can take the rope. I don't know how fast it's flowing but it can be deceptive and it will be flowing faster in the centre of the river. Personally I wouldn't want to try moving a boat in these conditions. On the Thames it's flowing past me at about 5 knots. My engine could make headway against the current but if I made a mistake and got caught beam on to the current it would be Goodnight Vienna. So while I'd do it if I had to, the thought of untying ropes with this much water flowing past wouldn't be something I'd really want to do.

Edited November 25, 2012 by blackrose

[luctor et emergo]

I would certainly not abandon the boat, but sleep will be interupted on an hourly basis, to check ropes and position.

If possible, attatch end of rope to a solid railing, then tie of to bollards/t-stud on boat. That way you can adjust even when mooring point submerges. Consider plaing out a longer line, get out away from the bank, and drop anchor. All depends on prevailing flow of water.

[matty40s]

I would certainly not abandon the boat, but sleep will be interupted on an hourly basis, to check ropes and position.

If possible, attatch end of rope to a solid railing, then tie of to bollards/t-stud on boat. That way you can adjust even when mooring point submerges. Consider plaing out a longer line, get out away from the bank, and drop anchor. All depends on prevailing flow of water.

I really feel we will see another boat lost, the last floods, as upside down said, came above the white line on the no entry sign.

There is another 50-70mm of rain forecast overnight and into tommorow for the area.

I would also think that the anchor method, if it held, might be the only answer.

 

but when trees like this one are coming down....

 

 

as a complete other view, having seen what happened last time, and knowing what is coming, I think I would allow the boat to cross the railings and tie up to the pub, and get it craned back in once the water has receded.

Edited November 25, 2012 by matty40s

[luctor et emergo]

If you can get a line from the bridge to the boat, use it to drag the anchor(s) towards the bridge, and work it back to the boat, to get a bite. Then play out, but not detatch, the mooring lines.

[John Holden]

If you can get a line from the bridge to the boat, use it to drag the anchor(s) towards the bridge, and work it back to the boat, to get a bite. Then play out, but not detatch, the mooring lines.

 

Would a NB normally carry the couple of hundred feet of line to enable that to be done?

[luctor et emergo]

Would a NB normally carry the couple of hundred feet of line to enable that to be done?

 

Doesn't everybody?

 

Off course everything needed, if not carried, will need to be borrowed/begged/stolen for the occasssion...

[Guest]

There is no question the level is rising and sharpish too - when the OP first linked to the web cam there was visible un-submerged pavement in the foreground - all that is now obliterated by water....

[mark99]

There is no question the level is rising and sharpish too - when the OP first linked to the web cam there was visible un-submerged pavement in the foreground - all that is now obliterated by water....

 

 

You can see the height of the river each past hour by clicking on the time button. It is indeed rising and fast.

[Up-Side-Down]

 

This is the view in drier times. During floods earlier this year the water level was just below the Kings Head's ground floor window lintols. Search for Kings Staith York on Flickr to see what can happen to the Ouse at this location when the river gets really naughty.

 

You can clearly see what the two boats are up against - literally and metaphorically!

[luctor et emergo]

So those railings are what, 2' away from the edge? That means grounding is a serious risk. I would get the boat tied one way or other away from that quayside. Even if it means buying a few hundred feet of rope.

[Guest]

Previous floods at the same spot.

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2012 by The Dog House

[Up-Side-Down]

I really feel we will see another boat lost, the last floods, as upside down said, came above the white line on the no entry sign.

There is another 50-70mm of rain forecast overnight and into tommorow for the area.

I would also think that the anchor method, if it held, might be the only answer.

 

but when trees like this one are coming down....

 

 

as a complete other view, having seen what happened last time, and knowing what is coming, I think I would allow the boat to cross the railings and tie up to the pub, and get it craned back in once the water has receded.

 

Coincidentally that's what happened 25 years ago at the opposite side of the river on Queen's Staith. A link to the video of the crane recovery can be found about a third of the way down Richard's blog on the post for 5th October http://canal.travel/node?page=2

[Looby Loo]

What is the usual insurance position as regards this sort of calamity? Do the Insurance company say it's an act of God and wash their hands of it completely leaving the boat owner to stump up for rectifying damage to their boat, damage to the railings they have inadvertently "sat on" and the crane costs? I'd be interested to know. I don't have a boat yet so haven't got a policy to consult. It would certainly be something to bear in mind though given, the regularity with which this happens.

[blackrose]

 

This is the view in drier times. During floods earlier this year the water level was just below the Kings Head's ground floor window lintols. Search for Kings Staith York on Flickr to see what can happen to the Ouse at this location when the river gets really naughty.

 

You can clearly see what the two boats are up against - literally and metaphorically!

 

From what I can see in the picture, if the water rises to the bottom of the ground floor windows of the pub, you should still have a couple of foot of boat below the waterline that can stop you going over the bollards & chains at the edge of the river. However, you will have to make sure you don't come down on the edge of the wall when the water recedes.

 

Previous floods at the same spot.

 

 

 

Well, if it gets that high then you need a bow rope tied to the top of bridge between the arches.

 

I can't work out with way the river flows? From this picture it looks like it's flowing from the bridge towards the camera, but on the CCTV images the boats seem to be facing away from the bridge? If it's flowing towards the bridge then you obviously can't use it to tie to.

Edited November 25, 2012 by blackrose

[junior]

Are there people on the boat still?

[Up-Side-Down]

From what I can see in the picture, if the water rises to the bottom of the ground floor windows of the pub, you should still have a couple of foot of boat below the waterline that can stop you going over the bollards & chains at the edge of the river. However, you will have to make sure you don't come down on the edge of the wall when the water recedes.

 

 

 

Well, if it gets that high then you need a bow rope tied to the top of bridge between the arches.

 

I can't work out with way the river flows? From this picture it looks like it's flowing from the bridge towards the camera, but on the CCTV images the boats seem to be facing away from the bridge? If it's flowing towards the bridge then you obviously can't use it to tie to.

 

The river flows towards the webcam so the boats are downstream of the bridge. While the centre cockpit boat on the outside is clearly facing upstream, the narrowboat appears to be facing downstream, although with my dodgy eyesight I can't be entirely sure. Yesterday there was another plastic boat moored, and partially visible on the extreme right hand side of the picture. Without anywhere else much for it to safely go, I would imagine it's just moved up a tad out of shot.

 

Are there people on the boat still?

 

Just as it was going dark you could clearly see through the cabin windows that the lights were on in the narrowboat. Prior to that there had been a lot of activity at both the bow and the stern - although I'm still not entirely sure which way round it is moored.