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Diesel Heater - Discuss!


RichardH

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We have a mixture of Eberspacher and Webastos but I am interested in peoples thoughts on each of the 4 main brands so......

 

Eberspacher

Webasto

Mikuni

Hurricane

 

Which would you have and why?

Why would you not touch a particular one with a bargepole?

 

Please, no "I wouldn't have a diesel heater" comments, we have no sensible alternative on the hire fleet as our guests feel the need for instantish heat to be a requirement.

 

We have tried gas and really wouldn't venture back down the Alde avenue.

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We have a mixture of Eberspacher and Webastos but I am interested in peoples thoughts on each of the 4 main brands so......

 

Eberspacher

Webasto

Mikuni

Hurricane

 

Which would you have and why?

Why would you not touch a particular one with a bargepole?

 

Please, no "I wouldn't have a diesel heater" comments, we have no sensible alternative on the hire fleet as our guests feel the need for instantish heat to be a requirement.

 

We have tried gas and really wouldn't venture back down the Alde avenue.

 

I was going to do a poll about this :) Glad someone has kicked off a discussion though as still not sure which way to bounce :/

 

David

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We have an Eberspacher on CF. The reason why? - because it was on the boat when we bought her.

 

Because of the reliability issues of an Eberspacher running on red diesel and, whilst it is ok for Autumn / Spring use, we did investigate a Hurricane.

 

Our boat is a 45 footer and space is at a premium. After a couple of measuring sessions we gave up on the idea of a Hurricane as the only place we could fit it was where the calorifier is.

 

We did not want to loose the calorifer so we overcame the problem by having a wood burning stove fitted, whilst keeping the Eberspacher. We can usually run the Ebby for 2 years between services.

 

The stove will actually heat the boat quicker than the Ebby.

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Ok my thoughts as a long term user of these things on red diesel.

1; they must be installed as per makers instructions with regards to height above/below the fuel tank.

2; never ever ever ever use a theromostat on them, its sure fire way of breaking them due to cycling.

3; never go for one bigger then you need as they will coke up an eber 5kw and a mikuni mx40 are fine for up to 60ft NB

4; use trv on the rads and make sure there is at lest one rad that cannot be shut off to act as heat leak.

 

I have had an mx40, mx60 an eber 4 and now an eber 5 on various boats nd have had no problems in 11 years that can be attributed to the design of the unit.

 

What would I go for?

In a widebeam an mx60

In a NB an eber 5

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We went for Mikuni MX60 rather than MX40 on our 60' nb, this was on the advice of Mikuni. After 5 years of smoking and occasional coke ups (and cock ups!) unreliable starting and replacing everything in sight we were ready to give up when it suddenly started performing faultlessly, Why? The only condition that changed was the availability of proper red diesel, i.e. ULSD. Before that it was gasoil with its high sulphur content.

 

IMO that is the number one cause of poor reliability of these kinds of heaters. Mikuni claimed their heaters would run on red diesel but unfortunately it wasn't available canalside until approx 2009.

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I build widebeams as you know and because I have a lot of room to play with I would use none of these types.Because I have the room I have used the Somy boiler by Energy Solutions and they are extremely reliable and efficient.On a Narrow Boat if I had to use any of these it would be the Mikuni unit.Regards Ian

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I fitted a Mikuni MX60 on my 60ft boat when I built her in 1996 or thereabouts apart from a cable fault (my problem) it's worked perfectly - well too well as it heats up the boat very quickly - too well.

I used to have a challenge with cycling - not so much that but it was three strikes and you're out. Not restricting the calorifier flow and leaving the bathroom double rad on cured that problem.

 

It's been run on whatever quality of Red was available at the time including a nasty attack of the bug and not faltered.

 

 

I bought the unit as the perceived wisdom at the time was to avoid ebersplutters (Webastos were not much in evidence at that time). On reflection, the helpfulness of the folks at Mikuni was what really sealed the deal. A good bunch to deal with. Perhaps the fact that my unit is 24V has helped the smooth running.

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Which would you have and why?

Why would you not touch a particular one with a bargepole?

 

Just to add to the others, I'd avoid anything badly installed! (and over/under specced)

 

What might help swing it is reliability, ease of servicing and possible service information and training for your staff, price and availability of parts, and whether there's a good local specialist charging reasonable rates if you're really out of luck.

 

How do you feel the Eberspachers and Webasto compare for reliability? If Mikuni and Webasto are pretty similar it might be worth sticking with Webasto if they give good service.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

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Ok my thoughts as a long term user of these things on red diesel.

1; they must be installed as per makers instructions with regards to height above/below the fuel tank.

2; never ever ever ever use a theromostat on them, its sure fire way of breaking them due to cycling.

3; never go for one bigger then you need as they will coke up an eber 5kw and a mikuni mx40 are fine for up to 60ft NB

4; use trv on the rads and make sure there is at lest one rad that cannot be shut off to act as heat leak.

 

I have had an mx40, mx60 an eber 4 and now an eber 5 on various boats nd have had no problems in 11 years that can be attributed to the design of the unit.

 

What would I go for?

In a widebeam an mx60

In a NB an eber 5

 

 

I would take issue with point 2, our last boat had a Mikuni and welived aboard her for 10 years with the heater contolled by a timer/stat with no problem, likewise when I fitted a Propex that too was fitted with a timer/stat again no problem.

 

Phil

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We have had quite literally a completely mixed experience.

 

On 2 boats with Webasto they have never missed a beat. 1 with Webasto has been a nightmare.

 

Similar story with the Ebby. 1 with great. 1 with pain in the neck.

 

I am tempted with Mikuni - we have an Alde to replace this winter and the problematic Ebby. This would leave a Webasto/Mikuni fleet for now.

 

Then again, one of my closest friends in the industry swears by Hurricane.....

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I would take issue with point 2, our last boat had a Mikuni and welived aboard her for 10 years with the heater contolled by a timer/stat with no problem, likewise when I fitted a Propex that too was fitted with a timer/stat again no problem.

 

Phil

 

Timer is fine, the unit is on for a predetermined period

Stat causes it to cycle and is not good

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We have a mikuni MX60 on our 70 ft narrowboat. We have been living on the boat since March 2012. It runs 4 radiators 2 towel rails and heats the water. It was fitted new on the boat in 2005. So far we have had no problems, the only downside it can be thirsty to use.

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Timer is fine, the unit is on for a predetermined period

Stat causes it to cycle and is not good

 

 

Can't get my head around the stat issue, pls could you explain.

I assume that the stat is wired to make the unit go to sleep rather than restart it?

Is the problem that the stat has too narrow a temperature range and the heater comes on again at full power (too much welly for just a top up?

Any other reason?

 

tks:

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We have a mixture of Eberspacher and Webastos but I am interested in peoples thoughts on each of the 4 main brands so......

 

Eberspacher

Webasto

Mikuni

Hurricane

 

Which would you have and why?

Why would you not touch a particular one with a bargepole?

 

Please, no "I wouldn't have a diesel heater" comments, we have no sensible alternative on the hire fleet as our guests feel the need for instantish heat to be a requirement.

 

We have tried gas and really wouldn't venture back down the Alde avenue.

 

I would only touch a Pressure Jet type diesel heater (or drip fed), Hurricane is PJ the others listed aren't. Also add to your list the Bubble PJ (there are others), lockgate make drip fed boilers as well as stoves, but you have to light these first.

 

Of course if your guests are not on 24/7 then the non PJ heaters may be suitable.

Edited by Robbo
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We have the Hurricane fitted, and are very impressed! It just works! Day in and day out! I have had experiences of both Eberspacher and Webasto's in the past and decided that I would never want either of these again. It seemed there was always something going wrong with them to the extent that I was never confident they would work when I really needed them!

 

The Hurricane has been consistently reliable and so simple to use with it's timer/stat! In summer we use it just for hot water when not cruising or on shoreline.

 

Unlike the adapted truck units (ebers/webasto) which seem tempramental, the Hurricane units in their original form, I understand were designed for the inhospitable Canadian winter where they were switched on in October and off in April!

Edited by NB Ellisiana
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Can't get my head around the stat issue, pls could you explain.

I assume that the stat is wired to make the unit go to sleep rather than restart it?

Is the problem that the stat has too narrow a temperature range and the heater comes on again at full power (too much welly for just a top up?

Any other reason?

 

With a stat the boat reaches the desired temperature it shuts the heater off, temperature drops the heater comesback on again and does the full start up, five minutes or so later the boat reaces temperature again so heater shuts off.

This goes on and on with the combustion chamber sooting up. These heaters need to run for extended periods (an hour or so minimum) so they burn off all the soot generated .

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We have the Hurricane fitted, and are very impressed! It just works! Day in and day out! I have had experiences of both Eberspacher and Webasto's in the past and decided that I would never want either of these again. It seemed there was always something going wrong with them to the extent that I was never confident they would work when I really needed them!

 

The Hurricane has been consistently reliable and so simple to use with it's timer/stat! In summer we use it just for hot water when not cruising or on shoreline.

 

Unlike the adapted truck units (ebers/webasto)which seem tempramental, the Hurricane units in there original form, I understand were designed for the inhospitable Canadian winter where they were switched on in October and off in April!

s

 

We too have gone the route of Hurricane. After years of struggling with Eberspachers, and I do mean struggling, and plural!

They do not take kindly to red diesel, specially if it gets dirty, which it can in a narrowboat if you are not very careful.

If you intend to use the heater as the only source of heat in the boat I would expect that you want it work like a home central heating installation ie fully automatic, possibly zoned, and doing the hot water as well.

Apart from the red diesel issue, the automotive style of heater does not like starting and stopping often, or running 'light', that is, cut back to its low heat setting. They very quickly coke up doing this.

The Hurricane copes with all of these issues. It will stop and start ad infinitum, and will swallow a wide range of fuel quality. They are also efficient, using .85 ltr/hr to give 7.2 Kw of heat, more than the others. It's also simpler to service, designed for owner service.

The downsides to this unit are:

1. It's expensive

2. It's noisy

3. There was an issue with the compressor failing, but I believe that it has been sorted.

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I would only touch a Pressure Jet type diesel heater (or drip fed), Hurricane is PJ the others listed aren't.

 

Webasto and Mikuni both offer pressure jet heaters.

 

The only things I have seen in this thread so far that I would disagree with is the use of TRVs, they are not a good idea on smaller heaters as they cause too much cycling like thermostats, though I do see thermostats being less of an issue now with ULSD, trouble is there are not really enough new installs around that have only ever had ULSD red through them to show conclusive results but early signs look good and on the new installs I have done since ULSD there have so far been no issues but I would prefer to se a sample of over a hundred before I would really stick my kneck out rather than the few dozen. When the burn rate is set correctly using gear that no self installer (& a lot of yards) simply do not have coking is, or cetainly seems to be far less of an issue. Cycling (true on / off cycling) is not just a coking assistor but equally importantly uses valuable Amp Hours and reduces glow pin life.

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It was me that said use trv however i also said that at least one rad should be set up as a heat leak so removing the problem of cycling.......

I usually put this rad in the bathroom thus making it nice and toasty when having a shower

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I always run our Webasto on white diesel, we've had it 5 years now and have never touched, its been faultless so far. We only really use it for hot water, I also run it for just over the hours so it starts up and runs full power twice.

Now that the new cleaner red diesel is available from all the work boats will I be safe using that instead of white ?

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Now that the new cleaner red diesel is available from all the work boats will I be safe using that instead of white ?

 

Technically it should now be the same as available at garage pumps with red dye and chemical tracer, better still is that some marinas have FAME free ULSD which is allowed for marine use but can not be sold for road use.

 

It was me that said use trv however i also said that at least one rad should be set up as a heat leak so removing the problem of cycling.......

I usually put this rad in the bathroom thus making it nice and toasty when having a shower

 

I wouldn't put them on at all and that is what Webo, Mikuni et all say too, one rad and a calorifier really isn't enough to load a 5kw heater as it should be for regular extended usage. Possibly you may have an issue with warranty claims if you ignored any of the fitting instructions from Webasto which specifically excludes them from usage with evaperator type heaters like the TT.

Edited by NMEA
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I said at least one rad in fact on my systems its usually two and it doesnt have to sink 5kw just 2.5kw or whatever the low heat setting is on the unit.

Been doing it that way since I got my first mx40 in1995 and never had a probem caused by it. So I guess I must be doing it wrong.......

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I designed our heating circuit to provide a decent heatsink for our 7kw MX 60, that is two calorifiers and 6 rads totalling 6kw+, takes an hour or more before it drops to half output after which it occasionally goes into full output for 5 or 10 mins. Also we can divert water to run through engine water jacket first and give us a warm glow plug free start up, haven't worked out what heatsink that adds up to.

 

I think these heaters are like an engine in that they benefit from a quicker warm up if given a continuous load to work against rather than running slow from cold which can add harmful cool running time, once full operating temp has been reached slow running won't do any harm.

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I said at least one rad in fact on my systems its usually two and it doesnt have to sink 5kw just 2.5kw or whatever the low heat setting is on the unit.

Been doing it that way since I got my first mx40 in1995 and never had a probem caused by it. So I guess I must be doing it wrong.......

 

 

Not really wrong per se, just not best practise.

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