Alde motor issues

[Odana]

We have an Alde boiler on our temporary borrowed boat, and one on the new boat we're about to pick up. On both boats the boiler seems to work fine, but doesn't circulate any water. It seems the little motor at the top needs to be working - it isn't moving on either machine so while the boiler heats up the rads don't.

 

Is there something we're meant to be doing, or are they both broken? We are not Alde-trained, preferring to rely on the fire. But it would be nice to know what's going on and fix it in case we DO need em! On the new boat there's a thermostat - we have adjusted this with seller, but it doesn't seem to make a difference (he last used it in the spring as a rare use, so can't tell us much more)

 

If we do need new motors, is this a simple and cheap thing (the unit seems to lift out of the tank easily) and where is best to get such items?

[GSer]

Mmm i have limited experience of alde boilers, but i've seen an off switch on the thermostat supplied by alde, you could try that, also some boilers are modded so you can use a cylinder thermostat only, ie in the summer. If perhaps your plugged into a shoreline with an immersion heater in the tank, then the alde tank thermostat might never switch the circulation pump on?

 

My boiler had a thermostat override switch added so i could switch between room and cylinder thermostats or cylinder only.

 

Only a guess though

[Jo_]

Our Alde has a circulation on/off switch which is by the bed. If I want the rads hot then I click the switch over. And the motor starts up, the hot water goes round and the rads heat up! So somewhere on the boat there will be a circulation switch methinks.

[dor]

I presume you are talking about the 2928 upright boiler. I seem to remember you can start the boiler up without the pump running. There is a brown thermostat with a slide switch on top which then controls the pump. The internal thermostat in the boiler leaves it ticking over as the water inside is hot; when you turn the pump on the internal temperature drops and the boiler fires up. The thermostat will control the pump, and the on/off slide switch will override it, turning it off even if the thermostat is switched on. This slide switch can fail, which would prevent the pump running. Have you tried bypassing the switch and putting a 12V feed directly onto the pump terminals?

When I had a 2928 I fitted a switch so I could turn the pump on even if the boiler was not running - this allowed the rads to get hot from the calorifer for warming up the boat while on the move.

[bizzard]

And the switch might be a room temperature thermostat switch.

I take it this is one of the older tall thin Comfort 20 type of gas boilers.

If the circulation pump motor on top of the water reservoir doesn't work when switched on check for 12v power at the pumps two little P+ and N- feed spade terminals with a 12v bulb or multi-meter. These pump motors are reversible so if the wires are on wrong will run in reverse. If no 12v power there, check fuses and for any other bad connections.

[Nobag]

If they have not been used for some time the rotor can stick, take it out and turn it by hand to see if that helps.

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Our Alde thermostat has a very small sliding switch on the top which turns the motor on the boiler on. Our Alde is the older long thin type. The thermostat switch is marked on/off. Be careful when you try sliding the tiny spade connectors off the pump motor. They can easily break. I put a single drop of WD 40 on each and that helped.

[Odana]

Thanks all. On the new boat we have tried the sliding switch on the thermostat - nuffink. And the borrowed boat - we can't find a thermostat anywhere so assume she doesn't have a separate one?

 

Will try rotating the rotor bit tomorrow, plus power to connectors, and see what happens.

[Ray]

I think that I'm right in saying that without power to the boiler the ignition won't fire.

 

Have you tried adjusting the thermostat to both extremes of the dial as well as sliding the switch?

 

Unless there is some strange wiring - ask the person you borrowed the boat from - without a thermostat/switch the boiler would be running all the time.

[Alan Saunders]

We have an Alde boiler on our temporary borrowed boat, and one on the new boat we're about to pick up. On both boats the boiler seems to work fine, but doesn't circulate any water. It seems the little motor at the top needs to be working - it isn't moving on either machine so while the boiler heats up the rads don't.

 

Is there something we're meant to be doing, or are they both broken? We are not Alde-trained, preferring to rely on the fire. But it would be nice to know what's going on and fix it in case we DO need em! On the new boat there's a thermostat - we have adjusted this with seller, but it doesn't seem to make a difference (he last used it in the spring as a rare use, so can't tell us much more)

 

If we do need new motors, is this a simple and cheap thing (the unit seems to lift out of the tank easily) and where is best to get such items?

 

It would be helpful if you could quote the model number. On mine there is a label next to the boiler controls and full instructions inside the vertical cover.

 

My 1985 vintage Alde 2920 has manual pietzo ignition, the radiator circuit is controlled by a thermostatic valve and the pump by a manual switch. More recent boilers have electronic ignition with, possibly, a timer and an instantaneous boiler too.

 

After fifteen years of holiday use (including many winter weekends) the lower bearing, above the impeller, became noisy. A further seven years of live-aboard and the motor failed. I was able to temporarily fix both of these problems but it requires a little engineering experience and some dexterity.

 

Last winter I bit the bullet and purchased a new motor/impeller assembly (the motor alone is not available) for ~£100. In 2010 a local boatyard had these in stock but last year I had to order the part from the chandler or from Alde direct. The new unit is the higher output version which is more likely to be suited to a boat with longer heating runs than the average caravan.

 

Repeating what others have said:

1. You can see if the motor shaft is turning but the primitive rubber tube connector may be slipping;
   
2. Make sure you have ~12v to the motor (test lamp or meter);
   
3. Lift the assembly a little (if it then runs the impeller was interfering with the recess);
   
4. Take the assembly out and turn it upside-down (if it runs, brushes are worn or displaced);
   
5. Turn the impeller by hand - if it starts it may keep going for many years.
   

 

[RLWP]

Thanks all. On the new boat we have tried the sliding switch on the thermostat - nuffink. And the borrowed boat - we can't find a thermostat anywhere so assume she doesn't have a separate one?

 

Will try rotating the rotor bit tomorrow, plus power to connectors, and see what happens.

 

IIRC, the thermostat switch is in the kitchen

 

Copper Jewel definitely has one

 

Richard

 

P.s. Alvechurch replace the little Alde egg-whisk pump with a proper Bolin (or equivalent) one on their hire boats. I guess there are very good reasons to do that

[Alan Saunders]

P.s. Alvechurch replace the little Alde egg-whisk pump with a proper Bolin (or equivalent) one on their hire boats. I guess there are very good reasons to do that.

Indeed, Hilperton (where I ordered my Alde replacement last Christmas) advised me that they replaced the Alde circulator with an external Bolin but by then they only had one hire boat with an Alde. As my Alde circulator had lasted the equivalent of ten years continuous use I decided to avoid the hassle of plumbing in a Bolin. No doubt that would have been the best solution!

 

Alan

[Bullfrog]

I know it seems obvious but is there enough water in the header tank?

 

Also on our boat there are a pair of hand-valves to isolate the rad circuit so that you don't need to have them hotting up when you just want to heat water in the summer time.

 

(Summer time - what's that?)

 

david

[john6767]

On ours there is a separate switch to put power to the system, not sure if it will light without that turned on. There is also a thermostat which has a switch on too, which we leave on all the time and turn it off by the other one. If the motor is not running and the thermostat is turned up, have you tried a meter across the motor to see if it is getting power.

 

When we were buying the boat the surveyor (and myself) could not get the central heating working so it was reported as faulty in the survey The previous owners were surprised as it had only recently been serviced, and they cam to look at it, and it worked for them. The problem we had was really rather silly, it was June and the temp in the boat was over 30 deg, so the thermostat never kicked in. As an aside if you do use it, if it's like ours, it will eat a gas bottle in 4 days.

[Odana]

I know it seems obvious but is there enough water in the header tank?

 

Also on our boat there are a pair of hand-valves to isolate the rad circuit so that you don't need to have them hotting up when you just want to heat water in the summer time.

 

(Summer time - what's that?)

 

david

 

Thanks all.

 

Yes, there IS a thermostat in the kitchen on Copper Jewel - it was masquerading as a box of teabags so I missed it in the currently overcrowded kitchen. Thanks Richard! Now the motor is running and things are gurgling happily with hot water, but STILL no heat at all to rads even after 30 mins. I had a quick search for hand valves but can't see owt. Will look again soon and check water level in tank tonight to see if an airlock has worked out with the gurgling

 

However, as the motor is working and running I'll borrow it and take it to new boat tomorrow to see if it works there as it should. On new boat there is power to terminals, a thermostat switch (in correct position - and tested in both), but no action from motor whichever way round wirtes are. If the known-to-work motor doesn't change things then I'll see if I can bypass the thermostat as someone mentioned to see if it's that switch.

 

Before and after that I will shovel more coal on the easy, simple, cheap fire. I don't want to use the Alde much, but as we have now got one of our own, I want to understand it!! Now I know why people grump about em!

[bizzard]

Thanks all.

 

Yes, there IS a thermostat in the kitchen on Copper Jewel - it was masquerading as a box of teabags so I missed it in the currently overcrowded kitchen. Thanks Richard! Now the motor is running and things are gurgling happily with hot water, but STILL no heat at all to rads even after 30 mins. I had a quick search for hand valves but can't see owt. Will look again soon and check water level in tank tonight to see if an airlock has worked out with the gurgling

 

However, as the motor is working and running I'll borrow it and take it to new boat tomorrow to see if it works there as it should. On new boat there is power to terminals, a thermostat switch (in correct position - and tested in both), but no action from motor whichever way round wirtes are. If the known-to-work motor doesn't change things then I'll see if I can bypass the thermostat as someone mentioned to see if it's that switch.

 

Before and after that I will shovel more coal on the easy, simple, cheap fire. I don't want to use the Alde much, but as we have now got one of our own, I want to understand it!! Now I know why people grump about em!

Make sure the pump wires are the correct way round, the motor will run in reverse if not and that its impeller is in good nick. They usually do have change over gate valves to shut off the heating to allow water heating only.