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Ruthless Eviction of Liveaboards from Fens Marina


Roger Gunkel

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So what we have learnt is that a marina has exercised its rights to give its moorers 13 weeks notice and close. Interesting to know is 13 weeks the period mentioned in the mooring agreement or 4 weeks. They are then going to upgrade the marina and facilities and reopen again for leisure boaters only. They are obviously taking a calculated gamble that this will work from a profit and environmental perspective in a way that they didn't feel was possible with the current occupants. Perhaps easier to sell on.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for the distress this must cause some boaters but it looks like the marina has done things n accordance with their mooring contracts. We don't know all the facts perhaps they were getting hassle from the council re the unofficial live aboards, council tax etc etc. perhaps they were getting hassle from the live aboards or just greedy although closing and upgrading the marina is no cheap exercise presumably Ely marina ates will be there benchmark mooring rate.

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Sorry, I think that is just knee jerking rather than a balanced decision

You're probably right John. I knee jerked as Roger seemed to attributing his views to me. I'm a bit sensitive. I'm sitting pretty now, but I've had some desperate times in life and won't forget the help of complete strangers when many would have taken a balanced decision and walked on by. We're all the product of our past. :cheers: Edited by boathunter
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You're probably right John. I knee jerked as Roger seemed to attributing his views to me. I'm a bit sensitive. I'm sitting pretty now, but I've had some desperate times in life and won't forget the help of complete strangers when many would have taken a balanced decision and walked on by. We're all the product of our past. :cheers:

 

Fairy Nuff, of course some of those people might have made a balanced decision to help. :cheers:

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You're probably right John. I knee jerked as Roger seemed to attributing his views to me. I'm a bit sensitive. I'm sitting pretty now, but I've had some desperate times in life and won't forget the help of complete strangers when many would have taken a balanced decision and walked on by. We're all the product of our past. :cheers:

My views are my own and I don't need to attribute them to anyone :) I do however acknowledge that I misinterpreted your post. I have also had difficult times and appreciated help on more than one occasion and am always willing to help when I can. I also don't define dubious people as those with shabby boats, rather those that exhibit malicious or anti social behaviour, whatever the condition of their boats.

 

None of that is really relevant to the point of the thread though.

 

Roger

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Not a reply to anyone in particular. I have lived at the Fish and Duck for two years ( having moved from Upware. Hello Roger. ) and I find Roger's posts pretty accurate.

Here's my view.

We were informed that a surcharge was coming but I did not hear of anyone questioning it until after an email from the F&D management informed us it was being withdrawn. It then emerged, over the grapevine, that someone had suggested that it was illegal and that the withdrawal was consequent upon this. This was not the reason for the withdrawal laid out in the email. I have talked, in the last couple of hours, to people who said they were quite prepared to pay the surcharge but didn't get the chance. One even went to the office to pay only to find it was no longer required.

 

I was in favour of the rebuilding of the pub and improvement to the walkways etc that were mooted when the new regime took over and I think some others were too. Subsequently it emerged that the 'improvements' included a policy of mowing and grubbing up trees and bushes that just stopped short of a scorched earth policy. Offers of walkways were made, altered and withdrawn. Additional charges were introduced eg 25p per week to place a postcard on the notice board. Only a small number of specified items were allowed on the banks along the river outside the Marine. So items either had to go on your boat or into a storage container, at a cost. Dinghies etc over 8ft (i think) were not to be kept in the water or on the bank. Owners were offered a secure storage facility, at a cost. Rumours of changes came and went. F&D management's preferred means of communication was by email. Quite a few liveaboarders (is there such a word?) don't have email and those that do don't necessarily look at it more than once a week so quite often people were unaware what was going on. People were expelled from the Marina on the whim of the management - no appeals procedure. There is nothing that I would call a written contract.

 

I have heard recently that Davina endured quite a bit of 'verbal' from some people complaining about things, including an emailed threat to cut her face. Nobody would condone this. My own experience was that if she had time she would listen politely to what you said, explain why you were wrong and then move briskly on to more important things. Dismiss!

The only time I 'had words' with her was last Saturday when she and James came to Marina. I asked for more time to allow people who had problems moving their lives at short notice and was given the explanation that they were doing things the way they were (A) because it would cost too much to it any other way and (B) their lawyers said they had to (they like talking about their lawyers, just in case you forget they have them.)

Among the few people I have talked to most have been thinking about moving for a while because the 'vibes' are so bad. There has been a nasty atmosphere for some time. Wondering what load of shite was going to dropped on us next. Now we know.

I really like it on the river and I am going to wait till the 9th January. Partly because I want to hang onto my phone line for a bit, and partly because anything could happen in the next three months. Perhaps I'll get frozen in.

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Hi Cootwatcher and welcome to the forum :) It's good to have someone from Popes Corner Marina finally join the forum and give an on the spot report. I'm also pleased that you confirmed my reported details. :rolleyes:

 

Did I buy my Wind generator from you by the way? If so, it's great to see you pop up here and at least know who you are :) I also moved from Upware 3 weeks ago to an idyllic mooring from our point of view.

 

Hope you stay and continue contributing to this excellent forum, and hope you get sorted out for a new mooring yourself.

 

Roger

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Even if the landlord of the marina has acted legally and within their rights, I'd argue that they haven't acted as ethically or morally as others might wish them to.

 

The crux of the matter is the lack of alternative moorings and the fact that many of the residents have put down roots, etc. Whilst I don't know numbers, I can fully believe that some have children in local schools; I know one other resident runs a small business in Cambridge, and so has to live within commuting distances to run it, etc.

 

All I know of the situation is what I have heard from the forum, but it strikes me that although the management of the marina might have the right to do what they want to do, it is not the right thing to do, or the right way to go about it.

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Hello Roger. Yes it was my wind generator.

 

I think the battle here is lost, if there was ever any other realistic outcome. There was some appetite for a fight a few days ago but that has gone now, except in the case of one or two individuals who've not much to lose. Everybody seems convinced that Shropshires solicitors will make mincemeat of anyone who tries to resist. None of us have legal training and the fear is a that a legal challenge would be very expensive especially if it failed. Anyone staying at their mooring beyond 19th Jan is threatened with being sued for damages! and costs.

For some this could not have come at a worse time and they are going to have to sell their boats, taking a heavy financial hit. A few will go continuous cruising: usually those who have done it before.

 

A few of us are trying to get this the maximum media exposure we can. At one time we thought sufficient public embarrassment might change the outcome but I think they are immune to it. Now we are trying to make sure this doesn't go unnoticed, at least locally, but even the appetite for this seems to be waning a bit

 

Thank you for starting this off, Roger.

 

Anything anyone else can do to get this onto twitter, facebook, utube , other forums, television, what have you, would be much appreciated.

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It seems that here was already conflict between some of the "residents" and the marina owners - threatening to cut someones face is not helpful but you can understand the anger. If there is no mooring agreement between moorers and the marina I find that strange. The 13 weeks must come from their lawyers. When I used to go past the marina the majority of boats were fairly small. I hope that most can find alternative moorings in the area but there is not a lot of choice.

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I am going to have to be more careful what I type. This is is the first time I have posted anywhere and it's gone to my head. Re the contract, we did sign an agreement but to me it did not seem like a "proper' contract such as you have even hiring out, say, a pressure washer. The cutting threat, I have to admit, is hearsay and unique and uniquely extreme, as far as I know.

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How many spaces had residential planning permission?

In the context of this thread, does that actually matter Sue? Surely it is incumbent on the owners of the Marina to ensure that they are fulfilling the requirements for residential moorings. If a boater approaches a Marina and asks whether they have a residential mooring available, and they are told yes, they are not then going to ask to be shown legal papers to prove this, particularly if it is a well established and well known marina with a long history of liveaboard moorings. Surely taking money for the mooring is entering into a contract whether written or not.

 

From another viewpoint, If the owners have been operating without permission for many years and have been challenged by the planning authorities then they should at least consult with the residents to discuss the problem with them. I would have also thought that in view of the high profile of the parent company and the fact that it is a very big employer and huge local landowner, would at least give it the power to discuss retrospective planning applications with the relevant authorities. The authorities would have at least given it some consideration rather than risking a sudden flood of homeless boaters.

 

In view of the information from Cootwatcher and collaborating information that led to me posting in the first place, it does look as though this is a clear.move to get rid of liveaboards with the aim of theoretically maximising future profits from the marina.

 

Roger

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It's been so long since I last posted on this forum that I'd forgotten my user name but, as another resident of the Fish and Duck marina, I'd like to add a bit more information to this thread.

 

In conversation with last years manageress, she gave the local council a list of all the residential boats in the marina in order for the rates to be assessed. This indicates that full residential status was held, with the council taking their revenue from the marina rather than directly from the residents. The marina was then run by Buttercup Catering, another Shropshire company.

 

The £550 mentioned was for next year (2013) with specific mention made that mooring fees might be going up as well. In addition to this there was an extra £100 to be paid this year (2012) which was additional to the mooring fees that had increased by 25%. We turned up at the office to pay this and were surprised to be told that it had been withdrawn.

 

While rumours of the eviction were first heard on Wednesday, formal notification came by letters that were left in the office while it was closed. The hapless young man who opened up the next day was given no warning that he would have to deal with the sad and angry recipients of the news while opening a letter of his own. He has also lost his job.

 

It has been made clear that the marina will not be accepting residential boats once the refurbishment works are complete. Previous works to the road have been managed without closing the marina by the use of farm roads. While the Harveys have sent us an email giving details of marinas that have moorings or hard standing available, none of these accept liveaboards.

 

We too were horrified to hear that someone had threatened Davina. If true we would have fully supported the eviction of the offending boater. The worst that most of us are guilty of is a gently worded petition to be allowed more than two days to clear the riverbank of all the personal items that had, up until that point, been allowed within the marina agreement we signed.

 

On a personal note, we first moored at the Fish and Duck in 2005, we have one child at school, one at college and both of us work in the local area.

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Hi Happy Go Lucky and welcome to the forum (again) :)

 

It's good to have another F&D resident joining, as it helps to publicise the way that you have all been treated and gives credibility to the reported information, which all seems very consistent.

 

I don't know if we know each other, but you must have moved into the F&D marina the year after we took our mooring at Upware. I know Cootwatcher well, who has just joined the forum and a great many of the F&D residents. I sincerely hope that you can sort out the mess that you have been dropped into and get a mooring sorted out before the real Winter sets in.

 

If there is anything that I can do to help, please feel free to email me by clicking on my profile image, which will open up the email facility.

 

Roger

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I am one of the unfortunate ex-residents from the Fish and Duck marina. We are all disgusted at what has gone on and really feel that we have not been looked after at all. I really feel for those who have young children in School, have boats with no engine, or those who have larger boats which are difficult to find homes for. We moved this weekend with a few neighbours and are now mostly settled at Isleham marina which seems like a lovely community, but is quite a bit more petrol for my journey to work now.

 

The way we have been treated from the point where our old manager left, has been appalling. The reason she left was because she couldn't stand the stress and the way she was having to pass on terrible information to us all on a pretty much weekly basis. The mooring prices shot up and this was said to be due to all the improvements that were being made. As far as I could see the only improvements that were made were a) the toilet block moved over the hill so that it could really be facilities for the new campsite that is planned to happen next year b)The chemical toilet point moved over the hill so that it is out of the way of the 'garden marina' as has been mentioned before. Never mind the long walk we all had every time we needed to use these facilities and c) People's gardens being ripped out and taken away to make it all 'uniform' and 'neat'. The improvements we needed was the drive way sorting so that we didn't break our car suspension on the way to work every day.

 

I am very sad that this has been allowed to happen and it fills me with a sense of anger, disgust and lack of security in my life style, even though my partner and I are hard working professional people who are getting married next year, it is not as if we are a lower life form, which is what I feel we are being treated like.

 

Rant over for now!

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How many spaces had residential planning permission?

Irrelevant unless the planning authority have issued a notice.

 

You do not require residential planning permission until a planning authority has told you and issued a notice to apply, retrospectively.

 

The offence is not the absence of RPP but the failure to comply with a planning notice.

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Hi Jesse, welcome to the forum and thanks for adding even more inside information to this thread. Congratulations on getting a new mooring at Isleham, I also know many people there and Isleham are members of my coal consortioum, where a large group of us buy our coal at wholesale direct from the suppliers.

 

I first posted news on this forum of the evictions, as a lot of my friends and acquaintencies were affected and I wanted to highlight the injustice of it and lack of any respect and compassion for people and their lives. If nothing is done to make it difficult for the owners, it opens the door for others to feel they can do the same.

 

What surprises me also, is that although there were a number of people who were as concerned as I on this forum, there were many who were more interested in doubting the detail of my original post, offering possible alternative explanations for the evictions rather than focussing on an issue that has so much impact on so many people.

 

Inspite of me bringing this to the forum's attention and continuing to respond to posts and questions, It has been suggested that I should join the RBOA if I really want to help, although I have seen no evidence of any members here who are already in the RBOA offering to help.

It has been suggested that I have exaggerated numbers because an ancient picture on Google Earth shows less boats,

It has been suggested that residents have been evicted because of lack of planning permission- pure speculation.

It was queried as being odd that nobody from the marina had said anything on the forum, so casting doubt on my report.

Suggestions that people had refused to pay the surcharge so had been evicted as a result.

Various other comments to suggest that maybe my report was one sided.

 

Since then, three residents from the marina have now joined this forum all corroborating my original report and adding more detail, the doubters seem to have gone quiet rather than offering help and positive suggestions. There are people's lives being turned upside down with these evictions, people being treated as worthless, not just a few, but dozens! Many of the members of this forum are liveaboard boaters that could conceivably end up in the same situation, and it's about time some of them offered some real support rather than sitting at their keyboards looking for hyperthetical excuses, or telling me what I ought to be doing!

 

Wake up and smell the coffee, before more of us start drowning in it :banghead: :

 

Roger

 

PS sorry for the rant but I am angry :angry:

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If any of the affected boaters want any help crewing/moving their boats locally or through Denver/Middle Levels etc. feel free to send me a PM. I work shift so should be able to get a few days off in a row if necessary.

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We have heard about the livaboards that have been moved on what about the leisure boaters, do they not have a similar problem, or do they not count?

I do feel that the title of the thread is somewhat emotive and if indeed the whole marina has been closed, as it appears to be, the title would have been better as "Ruthless Eviction of boats from Fens Marina"

 

Whilst I do have sympathy for those that have had to find new moorings it is within the right of the land owner to develop the marina as they see fit (subject to PP).

 

This could happen at any marina / mooring as there is no security of tenure for anyone, even with a contract, leisure or livaboard.

One is on especially dodgy ground if living on a leisure mooring as there you will have effectively have broken the terms of the contract.

Edited by idleness
  • Greenie 1
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Hi guys, I am one of the unlucky residents at popes corner, we got our letter left in our letter box and didnt actually check until Friday so unlike some we were two days behind finding out the news, by the time we knew it was too late to make alternative arrangements and we are now rushing around trying to locate a mooring in the local area.

 

my partner is a carer and is constantly back and forward to the boat during the day, being at popes corner this is ideal for the area she covers. having to move is going to require a huge change in how she operates on a day to day basis.

 

we are extremely upset by the way in which this has happened and how little sympathy there has been from the marina owners, I spoke to James (Davinas husband) on the phone Friday and was basically told that hey had done more than they were legally required to do and that there would be no exceptions to the eviction date. being told that having live aboards would not compliment there future business plans.

 

when asked about the future of the marina he wouldnt confirm what they had planned, only that out of 83 leisure boats 7 had confirmed that they would be returning in April. he also claimed that there were 50 live aboards that would not be allowed to return.

 

I was on the residents committee and at no point was there any mention of the redevelopment involving this amount of work. the impovements that they have made so far seem to be being made redundent as they have redecked the central area, in my conversation with the owner he confirmed that this area was going to be removed completely to increase mooring spaces.

 

I feel for those who have not recieved any notification, I know of at lease one person who is travelling and has left her boat unattended, if they have not been contacted I dread to think what they may return to?

 

I wish that if this was the only way that they could have waited. let us move at a better time of year, avoiding lock closures, poor weather and allowed us more notice to locate moorings,as im sure we will all be fighting for the moorings that those that continously navigate would be looking for during the winter months and i just dont think there is enough to go around.

 

this has really taken us both back, our confidence in living aboard has been knocked, we are even thinking of selling up as we are worried that this will only happen again.

 

I appologise if i'm not making sence as im sure you can understand this is a stressful time for us

 

Carl

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Why is everyone rushing about?

 

According to Roger's original post the eviction notices were served last Thursday and 13 weeks notice had been given.

 

It would appear that many people have already found alternate moorings.

 

My daughter rents a flat. She's just been given 3 months notice to quit by her landlord. What's she doing? ...... finding somewhere else to live.

 

At least a boater can just move the boat.

 

Whilst people might not like it, a landlord has the right to do it.

 

Security of tenure? Wake up and smell the coffee

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If it's any help there are residential moorings at Priory Marina in Bedford, however since BWML were forced to apply to the council for planning permission the cost of residential berths is an eye watering £5600 (ish) a year. I don't know if they would do short term moorings. Not ideal but may be an option until spring?

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