Playing chicken

[Tony1]

Hello all, and I have to firstly say thanks too- this site has an incredible amount of information on every conceivable aspect of canal boating, ranging from what length of boat is ideal, all the way to what colour dog is best suited to waterways life, and what brand of cheese lasts longest in narrowboat fridges.

 

Reading these threads has given me so much helpful insight and direction on what we should be looking for in a boat, and I'm sure I won't be the only one who is very grateful for all the time and effort that goes into to posting replies on all the various topics.

 

Me and t'missus are thinking about moving onto a NB in a year or two, depending on the timing of jobs/money/early retirement, and all the usual things.

We tried our first NB holiday last week (yes, I was that dark handsome stranger on the Ashby canal), and among the many things that struck me, I noticed that there seemed to be a wide variation in how much room some boats would give each other when passing head-on. A few seemed almost reluctant to move aside, and seemed to want to hog the middle of the canal and force oncoming boats closer in to the bank, whilst others would politely give way as much as they could.

 

'Passing etiquette' is not something I've seen mentioned in any threads so far, so I just wondered whether it was me being new and missing something, or whether other people have noticed it.

In one case a very polite guy moved his boat over to within a foot of the far bank when passing me, allowing me virtually the whole of the canal to flounder around in, and in most cases people would give way to each other about equally, but there were exceptions.

In one memorable case a guy persisted in steering straight at me along the middle of the canal, although I was already only three feet from the right bank, and at risk of running aground (as I'd done several times that afternoon when giving way), whilst he had at least fifteen feet clear on his side, and was only at risk of running into some overhanging bushes.

 

I felt like an American teenager 'playing chicken' with an oncoming car, and his grim determination to avoid disturbing his hairdo in the overhanging bushes came very close to causing a collision (since I had nowhere to go but aground), but he steered away at the last moment and said something vaguely rude about me cutting it too fine as he went past.

 

Is this a common thing? Is it like a test of nerve, or an ego thing? Do some people play chicken when passing each other, or did I just encounter the one selfish git on the whole system?

I will say that all of the hire boaters gave me a politely wide berth when passing, but that was probably because they were struggling not to hit every object in sight anyway, as I was.

[Naughty Cal]

Only move over when you need to otherwise you run the risk of going aground. Also dont move over more than necessary otherwise you again run the risk of going aground.

 

Some people dont like doing this and prefer beaching themselves or tree pruning at every given chance

[Idunhoe]

According to the rules governing safe navigation it is the responsibility of both parties to manoeuvre in such a way as to prevent a collision. - Well that's the rule, in fact you will always get the selfish idividual who will hog the centre line, though fortunately more often you will encounter the boater who will take a more sensible line. Boating is like everything in life, it takes all sorts.

[IanM]

You only really need to move apart as far as not to touch.

 

In reality it depends on the circumstances. 2 boats who know what they're doing will stay heading towards each other until nearly the last minute when the water pushed in front of the boats helps to push the bows apart, and then cut in behind each other when they've passed with no need for anyone to head into any bushes or run aground.

[Nightwatch]

In the same vein.

 

Why is it always me that has to 'move over' when walking down the street?

 

Back on topic. I often remark to a passing boat, after losing the 'chicken' game, "Is that how you keep your paintwork looking nice"?

 

 

Martyn

[Joshua]

Hi Tony,

 

 

 

 

The middle of the canal is the deepest part so it makes sense for everyone to cruise there (boats handle much better and travel more efficiently the deeper the water).

 

This is particularly true, of course, the deeper draughted the boat is.

 

Our boat for example has a draught of 33 inches.

 

When a boat is coming towards me, I stay as long as possible in the deep water, i.e. the centre of the canal, to avoid running aground. I normally turn away in plenty of time for both boats to pass safely.

 

On many occasions, a boat coming towards me pulls away to one side a very long time before we are due to pass and these ‘cautious’ types tend also to give a lot of water, i.e. make a very wide detour, so much so that it then become completely pointless me moving over at all and I just keep going. I often feel the urge to try and explain to the other boater as we pass, that they didn’t need to pull over so far or so soon, but there is rarely time as we pass so I just smile and wave to try and avoid it looking as if I was bullying them out of the way.

 

I have come unstuck a few times. Once when approaching an overly restored shiny ‘working boat’ which I assumed was going to do exactly what I have just outlined above but as it turned out had no intentions of moving so when I did move, my movement was barely enough to avoid a collision.

 

The other problem is overtaking, on two occasions when I have pulled over to allow a boat in a hurry to pass, I have ended up grounding, it’s a bit irritating to have to spend 10 minutes reversing and manoeuvring to get unstuck, while the other boat sails serenely on!

 

All is not sometimes, as it seems.

 

 

 

 

Joshua

 

 

[Speedwell]

I think you will find that all sorts of boaters are out there and some certainly seem to like playing chicken. It's really up to the boater on the tree side to find a gap in the trees and pull into it, if there's not room for 2 boats to pass in open water, however if they don't or can't do so, I don't think you should hit them, if it can be avoided. In narrow waters both steerers should be keeping a good lookout and adjust speed so passing will occur at as wide a place as posssible.

It's best not to push other boats into the trees, as boat painting is expensive and trees can cause damage, not just to hair styles.

Also, don't forget that some boats are deep draughted and need to keep in the middle, especially in shallow canals.

Arthur

[MikeV]

You only really need to move apart as far as not to touch.

I believe the old working boatmen used to aim to pass within 3 inches of each other. It was a matter of pride to pass a close as possible without touching. They would also hold the centre of the canal until they were about a boat's length apart.

 

In general I find approaching boats move over far to early and far too far, particularly on wide canals like the L&L. I often see boats run aground because they've moved to close to the offside bank where the depth of water is very unpredictable.

 

I generally start to move to right of centre when the boats are about three boat lengths apart. Mind you, on the Huddersfield Narrow you can run aground even when hugging the centre!

[Athy]

Tony, Speedwell's point is a good one and very relevant on the Ashby Canal which is shallow in places. Deep-draughted boats, including former working boats (and especially if they are still working boats, so they are laden and deeper in the water) can't go right to the edge because they would often run aground. In their case it's necessity, not rudeness, which keeps them in our near the centre of the channel.

Going back to your original question, a miss is as good as a mile. If you're used to driving a car, you would feel that passing an oncoming vehicle with a gap of nine inches or a foot between the two would be a near miss; on the canal it's a comfortable margin (remembering that your combined speed will be only about 8 m.p.h.

[Rebotco]

I think it boils down to experience. Moving too far over (and slowing down too much) can bring you into difficulties, which may then impact on to the approaching boat. So you can finish up doing him no favours, by being over-cautious, which is what inexperienced hirers often suffer from. Also some boats are more deep draughted and have to keep close to the centre to maintain controllable movement, and thats not always immediately visible. So my practice on approaching vessels is to to move slightly over to the right so they know I have seen them, and hope they also move slightly to their right for the same reason. With two experienced boaters this will almost always result in perfectly safe passing, as the bows will also push each other further apart as you come close. Its actually quite difficult to hit head on for this reason! Just need to remain alert to signs of inexperience or panic from the oncoming boat and adjust accordingly. On straight stretches I like to pass with no more than 2- 3 ft between the boats. Different on bends of course, but again, experience is the best teacher.

[Ray T]

As has been said The Ashby is a shallow canal.

 

I have only come across "chicken playing" being more common on The Ashby rather than other canals in the Midlands where they are often deeper and have more room.

[OldGoat]

I was always taught to:-

 

Both boats keep station in the centre deep water of the channel

Perhaps slacken speed somewhat

About 3/4 of a boat's length apart, both boats bear away to the right

About 7/8 past the other boat both boats steer to resume their original position

Carry on

 

This process gives:-

an oportunity for the bow wash to move away and be disipated

Reduce any suction

Clears the way ahead for either boat to negotiate a corner.

 

Both skippers need to understand the process and not make faces / exchange unpleasantnesses - accusations of pinching their water etc.

 

It's great when it works....

[GoodGurl]

You only really need to move apart as far as not to touch.

 

In reality it depends on the circumstances. 2 boats who know what they're doing will stay heading towards each other until nearly the last minute when the water pushed in front of the boats helps to push the bows apart, and then cut in behind each other when they've passed with no need for anyone to head into any bushes or run aground.

this is exactly what i do depending on the room available.

[grahame r]

I think it boils down to experience. Moving too far over (and slowing down too much) can bring you into difficulties, which may then impact on to the approaching boat. So you can finish up doing him no favours, by being over-cautious, which is what inexperienced hirers often suffer from. Also some boats are more deep draughted and have to keep close to the centre to maintain controllable movement, and thats not always immediately visible. So my practice on approaching vessels is to to move slightly over to the right so they know I have seen them, and hope they also move slightly to their right for the same reason. With two experienced boaters this will almost always result in perfectly safe passing, as the bows will also push each other further apart as you come close. Its actually quite difficult to hit head on for this reason! Just need to remain alert to signs of inexperience or panic from the oncoming boat and adjust accordingly. On straight stretches I like to pass with no more than 2- 3 ft between the boats. Different on bends of course, but again, experience is the best teacher.

 

Wise words, it only takes a slight move to the right to let the oncoming boater know that you are aware of them. Unlike the lady a few weeks ago near Pewsey who steadfastly refused to give any indication that she was even aware of my presence, I don't normally make uncharitable comments to other boaters but did to her, her reaction, still in the centre of the canal was "well I've moved over now", meanwhile I now have scratches to the lovely new perspex widow I recently bought for the starboard hatch and even more battle scars to the paintwork. The canals are no longer solely used by professional hauliers and you can have no idea whether the boat approaching is being steered by complete novice or an experienced boater so don't play chicken.

[GUMPY]

Move off the centre line by 4ft no more, less if you feel able.

Do it less than a boats length from the other boat.

Dont reduce speed

 

Or am I pushung the limits?

 

Many moons ago i was steering a friends 70ft boat came to a bridge hole on the Regents, boat coming the other way, asked the owner if I should yeild, he advised against, passed the other boat in the bridge hole both she andI kept our nerves and neither of us touched each other or the bridge!

Edited September 26, 2012 by idleness

[Tony1]

this is exactly what i do depending on the room available.

 

Thanks for all the informative replies.

 

Knowing that there is a 'last-moment' practice, I won't be quite so alarmed next time when someone seems to be heading straight for me with no apparent intention of giving way.

 

The difference in this case was he actually didn't intend to move at the last moment, and he expressed annoyance that he had been forced to move at all- as it was he had to brush against the fringes of the overhanging branches. He was in a cruiser stern NB of about 50-60 feet, so I'm guessing he wouldn't have needed any more depth than anyone else.

 

He may have thought I was going to move another foot at the last moment as some seem to do, but I knew from previous experience that another foot would be on the verge of grounding, whereas he had about 15 feet of clear water on his side, although with the overhanging branches.

 

It was a case either of him going under the branches, or me probably going aground. My reasoning was he knew how shallow the canal was, could see my position, and would have been aware that I was close to grounding, but thought that was a risk he could take, rather than risk scratching his paintwork.

 

I thought otherwise, and I had a very nervous few seconds with our bows pointing head-on at full speed, until he finally gave in a swerved. I think I had gained a somewhat rose-tinted view of boating folks from reading all sorts of things, and watching waterworld on TV, so it was a bit of shock to find there were a few selfish and aggressive boaters out there.

I don't know why I was surprised though. One sees so many examples of utterly selfish and aggressive behaviour ojn the road that it has to expected to some extent on the waterways.

People like that exist in every walk of life, so the canals could not possibly be totally excepted.

[GoodGurl]

you will sometimes come across aggressive boaters (usually in shiny boats) but i just smile at them as we pass watching the look of disgust on their faces because i didn't move over for them, we are all "waterway user's" right?

[Québec]

 

[snip]

Knowing that there is a 'last-moment' practice, I won't be quite so alarmed next time when someone seems to be heading straight for me with no apparent intention of giving

 

That assumes a bit too much trust and faith for my liking.

Just like driving a car: do not assume the other driver knows what they're doing, always expect the unexpected, and hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[GUMPY]

Two NB will struggle to colide in that situation as the water that is being pushed in front of the boat will always keep them apart

[comfortably numb]

I'm not defending the guy that Tony came across but it may have been that although he had 15' of room, the water could have been very shallow. It often is shallow on tree lined sections and another hazard is tree roots a few inches below the surface of the water which would have been evident to the other boater but maybe not to Tony. There are quite a few sections like this on the Ashby.

[Tuscan]

If you treat other boaters considerately and be aware of your surroundings you shouldn't have a problem . I have a deep drafted boat and play chicken if the channel is narrow to maintain steerage but rarely have any issues with other boats as I slow right down if it's tight to try and not take the water from them.

[NB Alnwick]

Bear in mind that some boats may not be able to move over easily for all sorts of reasons:

 

If the approaching boat slows right down before moving over, you can be sure that it is deep draughted and in danger of going aground if it moves away from the centre of the canal too quickly - by slowing down, the steerer is taking prudent steps to increase the amount of water under the stern so that he has some (albeit limited) room to manoeuvre.

 

I doubt if anyone out there 'plays chicken' but some boaters can display a poor appreciation of what is going on outside the confines of their own boat. We once went aground just south of Banbury while still in the centre of the canal - a boat was coming towards us so we waited until he had passed before trying to reverse off - knowing that our efforts to get unstuck could result in the front end veering off unpredictably to the left or right - possibly blocking the navigation. The steerer of the other boat failed to appreciate our predicament and there followed much waving and shouting at us as he passed . . .

[Richard10002]

I'm not defending the guy that Tony came across but it may have been that although he had 15' of room, the water could have been very shallow. It often is shallow on tree lined sections and another hazard is tree roots a few inches below the surface of the water which would have been evident to the other boater but maybe not to Tony. There are quite a few sections like this on the Ashby.

 

If trees or some other obstruction block my way, and someone is coming the other way, I stop, or slow down, and wait for them to pass.

[Québec]

Deleted...repeat post. .

Edited September 26, 2012 by Québec

[bizzard]

Like a road really. If an obstruction is on your side of the fairway, give way.