Jump to content

Winter heating plans


Kathymel

Featured Posts

Hi folks.

I just wanted to run my plans for this winter's heating past you and ask if you have any better suggestions. I use the boat to stay in for about 50% of the time as I am in university part-time away from my usual home. When I'm not there I worry about it freezing.

My mooring has a hook-up, so power supply is not an issue. However, I would like to keep my bills down as low as I can.

Last winter I had two small oil-filled radiators set permanently on low. This seemed to keep the boat above freezing, but was a little imprecise. Also, I hadn't thought about the water pump which is outside the cabin and developed a small leak which may or may not be down to freezing. (I have only had the boat since Nov so still learning about it).

This year I thought I'd get a plug-in thermostat, set to come on at zero (if such a thing exists) and plug the radiators through that and, in addition, buy something like a vivarium heating mat to pop under the water pump, also supplied through the thermostat.

Any issues anyone can see with that?

Cheers, Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Kathymel' timestamp='1346765192' post='933625']
Hi folks.

I just wanted to run my plans for this winter's heating past you and ask if you have any better suggestions. I use the boat to stay in for about 50% of the time as I am in university part-time away from my usual home. When I'm not there I worry about it freezing.

My mooring has a hook-up, so power supply is not an issue. However, I would like to keep my bills down as low as I can.

Last winter I had two small oil-filled radiators set permanently on low. This seemed to keep the boat above freezing, but was a little imprecise. Also, I hadn't thought about the water pump which is outside the cabin and developed a small leak which may or may not be down to freezing. (I have only had the boat since Nov so still learning about it).

This year I thought I'd get a plug-in thermostat, set to come on at zero (if such a thing exists) and plug the radiators through that and, in addition, buy something like a vivarium heating mat to pop under the water pump, also supplied through the thermostat.

Any issues anyone can see with that?

Cheers, Kathy
[/quote]

.
No probs. Loads of people do this to avoid winterising and not waste electric. The device you want is called a frost stat, usually set to come on at [i]just above[/i] zero (2-5 C) so that if the temperature is falling quickly the heater can get into action before it is freezing. They seem to be about £20 on e-bay/Amazon. I would buy one for each heater so that a single stat failure only affects one heater. Try to site them near whatever it is you want protected.

N

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds a reasonable strategy. When I bought my boat it came with two 6ft long "greenhouse" heaters and two plug-in thermostats. TBH I've never used them and where I moor now there is no shore power. I always drain down in the winter as a precaution against freezing which does rather limit any impulsive winter cruising as re-connecting and refilling takes a bit of effort.

If you're interested in trying the plug-in thermostats I'll happily post you the one's I have as I've not found any use for them. PM me if interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi folks.

 

I just wanted to run my plans for this winter's heating past you and ask if you have any better suggestions. I use the boat to stay in for about 50% of the time as I am in university part-time away from my usual home. When I'm not there I worry about it freezing.

 

My mooring has a hook-up, so power supply is not an issue. However, I would like to keep my bills down as low as I can.

 

Last winter I had two small oil-filled radiators set permanently on low. This seemed to keep the boat above freezing, but was a little imprecise. Also, I hadn't thought about the water pump which is outside the cabin and developed a small leak which may or may not be down to freezing. (I have only had the boat since Nov so still learning about it).

 

This year I thought I'd get a plug-in thermostat, set to come on at zero (if such a thing exists) and plug the radiators through that and, in addition, buy something like a vivarium heating mat to pop under the water pump, also supplied through the thermostat.

 

Any issues anyone can see with that?

 

Cheers, Kathy

Hi Kathy

 

My bro in law leaves two small I beleive only 600 watt heaters on 24/7 in the winter and its stops his boat freezing up. It is a sixty foot n/b. He also has his water pump outside as it where fitted under his tug deck and it froze solid. He rectified the situation by encasing it in a plywood box filled with loft insulation and now never has a problem. :cheers:

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds a reasonable strategy. When I bought my boat it came with two 6ft long "greenhouse" heaters and two plug-in thermostats. TBH I've never used them and where I moor now there is no shore power. I always drain down in the winter as a precaution against freezing which does rather limit any impulsive winter cruising as re-connecting and refilling takes a bit of effort.

 

If you're interested in trying the plug-in thermostats I'll happily post you the one's I have as I've not found any use for them. PM me if interested.

 

That's really very kind of you. I would welcome them. I'll PM you now. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He rectified the situation by encasing it in a plywood box filled with loft insulation and now never has a problem. :cheers:

 

Tim

 

I thought about building a nesting box for my pump but I wasn't sure how effective it would be. For instance, if the temp dropped from zero to -10, how long would it take to penetrate the box?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought about building a nesting box for my pump but I wasn't sure how effective it would be. For instance, if the temp dropped from zero to -10, how long would it take to penetrate the box?

 

My bro in law has owned this boat for about five years and he did it during the first winter and it hasnt frozen since and we have had a few cold spells over the last few winters :cheers:

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 2.5 kW electric oil-filled radiator which has 3 power settings (about 1, 1.8 & 2.5 kW). I leave it on the low power setting if I'm going away in winter. It also has a built in thermostat so I can set the temperature. I leave it at around 7C. The smaller oil-filled electric rads don't usually have a thermostat, but the plug in ones should do the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We also use an oil filled radiator for the task - but I don't rely on the in-built thermostat as it is hopeless! For peace of mind, we use the plug-in frost-stat which seem to have been a lot more reliable, with the radiator left on at 'medium'. The cost of it flicking on and off is absolutely tiny - you'll not notice it, and it will cost a lot more if you spring a leak, burst a pipe, damage the boiler etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just make sure if you're leaving one of these heaters on unattended that it's a decent distance from anything which might fall on it, and that it can't fall over. Although oil-filled rads are relatively safe compared to other types of electric heaters, you still have to take care.

Edited by blackrose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I agree, TandC, the inbuilt thermostats on the oil-filled heaters seem a tad random. I shall feel a lot more confident with the frost stats and it should save a bit of cash, too.

 

One other thing I was wondering about. I have an Eberspacher which runs three radiators. At the moment, it has just the mini timer fitted. I looked on the website to see what alternatives there are, but I couldn't work out which one, if any, would allow me to programme it to come on every day for, say, a week. Would this be a viable alternative or are there reasons why it shouldn't be run when the boat is unoccupied?

 

Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the past few years we've used a blower heater to keep from freezing when mostly unattended through the winter. The advantage is that they move warm air throughout the boat where as a stagnant heater will only tend to warm the area it's located. We also block the mushroom vents when unattended, this prevents a lot of heat loss and with the window bungs fitted also, I's surprising how well this works, and there's ample ventilation through doors and side hatch having not been properly draft proofed yet.

 

The blow heater is 2kw but we only have it on the low setting most likely under a kw It's also on a timer plug so he heater gets a couple of hours rest twice a day. Our winter bill last year for the coldest 3 months was £70 so not a fortune and he boat never froze anywhere internally as far as we know and we suffered no damp or moisture problems either.

 

We place the heater in the open on a sheet of fire proof board so should it malfunction it's not close to anything easily ignitable. We also use an extension lead with a trip function, so the heater is plug fused has a trip as well as the trip in the boats consumer unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the past few years we've used a blower heater to keep from freezing when mostly unattended through the winter. The advantage is that they move warm air throughout the boat where as a stagnant heater will only tend to warm the area it's located. We also block the mushroom vents when unattended, this prevents a lot of heat loss and with the window bungs fitted also, I's surprising how well this works, and there's ample ventilation through doors and side hatch having not been properly draft proofed yet.

 

 

I did toy with the idea of trying to attach the Ecofan to the top of one of my rads for the same reason. Pretty sure it wouldn't get hot enough, but it amused me for a few minutes.

 

It didn't occur to me to block the vents. Do you just stuff rags in them or do you have a more creative method?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did toy with the idea of trying to attach the Ecofan to the top of one of my rads for the same reason. Pretty sure it wouldn't get hot enough, but it amused me for a few minutes.

 

It didn't occur to me to block the vents. Do you just stuff rags in them or do you have a more creative method?

 

I've now got sponges cut out in circles, some with a smaller hole in so when aboard we reduce the mushroom vent hole size as it's way over what's required.

 

However we originally stuffed some rolled up Microfibre cloth up there which does the same thing. Most the heat from a stagnant heater will go straight out the nearest mushroom vent, so definitely worth blocking. Draughts through outer doors actually help move air so if some warm air has accumulated a draught will help move it around the boat.

 

The blow heaters will move quite a lot of air on their own though ensuring a good distribution, we've been doing this for he past 6 years, heater has never failed, probably because is it's always set on the low setting and the element never seems to glow Red but still pumps out pretty warm air, and of course it's operating in a cold environment so always pulling cold air. There's also an automatic cut out that operates if the unit overheats and a thermostat control although crude, so it's pretty safe, but extra precautions advised as it's left alone.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've now got sponges cut out in circles, some with a smaller hole in so when aboard we reduce the mushroom vent hole size as it's way over what's required.

 

However we originally stuffed some rolled up Microfibre cloth up there which does the same thing. Most the heat from a stagnant heater will go straight out the nearest mushroom vent, so definitely worth blocking. Draughts through outer doors actually help move air so if some warm air has accumulated a draught will help move it around the boat.

 

The blow heaters will move quite a lot of air on their own though ensuring a good distribution, we've been doing this for he past 6 years, heater has never failed, probably because is it's always set on the low setting and the element never seems to glow Red but still pumps out pretty warm air, and of course it's operating in a cold environment so always pulling cold air. There's also an automatic cut out that operates if the unit overheats and a thermostat control although crude, so it's pretty safe, but extra precautions advised as it's left alone.

 

 

Blow heaters do sound like a much better option than static ones - I'm never quite sure where to place my heaters for the best effect and they would get rid of that worry. I shall get some foam, too. Thanks for the ideas!

 

Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I agree, TandC, the inbuilt thermostats on the oil-filled heaters seem a tad random.

 

 

I don't see why a built-in thermostat should be any different to plug-in one? Anyway, over 5 years I've never had a problem with mine. It switches on the heater when it's supposed to and switches it off when the temperature rises. I've got a digital thermometer and it all seems to tally.

 

Blow heaters do sound like a much better option than static ones

 

Not sure about leaving them unattended though. They seem like a greater fire risk to me. That's just an intuitive feeling, not based on any evidence or statistics. If something like a piece of paper falls or gets sucked over the air intake I'm sure they'd overheat quickly even on a low setting.

Edited by blackrose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why a built-in thermostat should be any different to plug-in one? Anyway, over 5 years I've never had a problem with mine. It switches on the heater when it's supposed to and switches it off when the temperature rises. I've got a digital thermometer and it all seems to tally.

 

Not sure about leaving them unattended though. They seem like a greater fire risk to me. That's just an intuitive feeling, not based on any evidence or statistics. If a piece of paper falls and gets sucked over the air intake I'm sure they'd overheat quickly even on a low setting.

 

I suppose partly it's because the ones I have don't have set temps on the dials, so I don't know when they will switch on and off. When I've tried setting them to find out, they don't always switch at the same temps. Having an accurate frost-stat will save me money, because I tend to overcompensate and turn them up a bit to be safe.

 

 

I know what you mean about the safety aspects of the blowers. Will have to think about it.

 

 

Cheers, Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why a built-in thermostat should be any different to plug-in one? Anyway, over 5 years I've never had a problem with mine. It switches on the heater when it's supposed to and switches it off when the temperature rises. I've got a digital thermometer and it all seems to tally.

 

 

 

Not sure about leaving them unattended though. They seem like a greater fire risk to me. That's just an intuitive feeling, not based on any evidence or statistics. If something like a piece of paper falls or gets sucked over the air intake I'm sure they'd overheat quickly even on a low setting.

 

Modern blow heaters have an automatic cut out should the air intake be blocked. There's also the thermostat setting cut off as well as a safety cut off should the unit or element overheat. I've used and abused many blow heaters as they're my preferred method of electric heating, many have failed but none caught fire in the process. Usually it's the element that gives out if heavily used on the full setting and just stops working.

 

Vented heaters with elements can be a bit riskier as if left unused for long periods dust can settle on the element and when switched on can smoke when the dust burns.

 

Oil is probably the safest though, but any electrical equipment can short out for varying reasons, but fuses and trips are also back ups.

 

The wee blower we use ran for 5 months continuously last winter except for the timer breaks I mentioned and the occasional visit, and there's no evidence of any overheating to unit lead or plug.

 

I would make sure though that the heater complies with U.K CE and kite mark etc etc rather than risk something cheap and unbranded.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose partly it's because the ones I have don't have set temps on the dials, so I don't know when they will switch on and off. When I've tried setting them to find out, they don't always switch at the same temps. Having an accurate frost-stat will save me money, because I tend to overcompensate and turn them up a bit to be safe.

 

In your case then yes, I agree, but the thermostat on my heater is digitally controlled rather than with a dial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldnt bother with the thermostatic frost stats. We relied on a couple of them to work our engine bay heaters and cabin heaters and they failed during the coldest spell of weather we had a couple of winters ago. Luckily we go to the boat every weekend so we caught it before any major damage was done. Now we just leave the heaters on 24/7. It didnt seem to use much more electricity last winter and made sure that the expensive bits and pieces that dont like frost (oil coolers, aftercooler, heat exchangers) were all kept well above freezing. :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that on the basic oil-filled rads with a wheel-type stat on the lump at the base, there is often insufficient separation between the heater itself, (who's temperature you don't actually want to react to) and the stat.

 

Hence they tend to get turned off as a result of the heater heating the stat directly, not because the radiator has necessarily accurately brought much of the surrounding air up to the required temperature.

 

I tend to think that a stat more separated from the actual heater will keep the actual ambient temperature closer to that of your choosing.

 

I don't think it is a big issue, but i think it is possible that the simplest solution is neither the most accurate, nor the most fuel efficient ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldnt bother with the thermostatic frost stats. We relied on a couple of them to work our engine bay heaters and cabin heaters and they failed during the coldest spell of weather we had a couple of winters ago. Luckily we go to the boat every weekend so we caught it before any major damage was done. Now we just leave the heaters on 24/7. It didnt seem to use much more electricity last winter and made sure that the expensive bits and pieces that dont like frost (oil coolers, aftercooler, heat exchangers) were all kept well above freezing. :cheers:

 

Oil coolers and heat exchangers don't like frost? :unsure: Is that just because your boat is raw water cooled? My oil cooler contains oil and antifreeze and the small heat exchanger I have contains antifreeze on both sides. I just leave the engine room alone in winter.

 

I think that on the basic oil-filled rads with a wheel-type stat on the lump at the base, there is often insufficient separation between the heater itself, (who's temperature you don't actually want to react to) and the stat.

 

Hence they tend to get turned off as a result of the heater heating the stat directly, not because the radiator has necessarily accurately brought much of the surrounding air up to the required temperature.

 

I tend to think that a stat more separated from the actual heater will keep the actual ambient temperature closer to that of your choosing.

 

I don't think it is a big issue, but i think it is possible that the simplest solution is neither the most accurate, nor the most fuel efficient ?

 

That's a good point, so on a heater with a built in thermostat it's probably a good idea to set the temperature a bit higher, say 7 or 8C so you can be sure that the rest of the boat stays above freezing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My bro in law has owned this boat for about five years and he did it during the first winter and it hasnt frozen since and we have had a few cold spells over the last few winters :cheers:

 

Tim

Tim,

The problem I see with that is during warmer weather the pump motors need to dissapaite heat when running. Unless removable the insulated box will cause the pump to overheat especially if a woman is having a shower or washing her hair!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.