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  • 2 weeks later...

I also have a build slot with Stillwater, Oct 2012. I spoke to Kevin yesterday and ours is the next hull to go into fabrication; so maybe sometime in the next month.

The late start does not surprise me as I never expected them to hit the October deadline; having spoken to other customers and based on a general feel for the industry. My guestimate was 3-6 months late and it looks as though I won't be too far out.

 

They are annoyingly difficult to contact, not helped by the move but they just seem to be lousy at answering the phone or replying to emails. I don't think they have full time secretarial support so I guess that makes it more difficult.

 

I've paid a big wodge of money (as per contract) so was very concerned by the negative financial info' given above; which is why I spoke to Kevin (emailed on Sunday and he called me 1st thing Monday so no delay there). I haven't seen the CCJs but I'm told they are mostly cleared and relate to some failed distributor arrangements earlier in the companies history. These also explain the lousy credit rating; which Kevin readily acknowledges.

 

I've always found Kevin and Richard to be pleasant and helpful and I do believe that they are completely genuine; working hard in difficult times. I've never been completely comfortable about the way boat builders work; you give them a big chunk of money and they go away and do a bit then you give them another big chunk of money etc. If they go broke at any point you stand to loose your last payment and at best are left with a big pile of bits and an incomplete boat.

 

Stillwater are no different to any of the other builders that I spoke to so I paid my money and crossed my fingers. My fingers are still crossed and will remain so until the boat hits the water but at the moment I'm no more or less anxious than I was over a year ago when I signed the contract.

 

Kevin also discussed some of the support issues and it seems to me there's two sides to most of these.

 

Any news on your build TheOldMan?

 

Mr Adagio

Edited by Mr Adagio
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I also have a build slot with Stillwater, Oct 2012. I spoke to Kevin yesterday and ours is the next hull to go into fabrication; so maybe sometime in the next month.

The late start does not surprise me as I never expected them to hit the October deadline; having spoken to other customers and based on a general feel for the industry. My guestimate was 3-6 months late and it looks as though I won't be too far out.

 

They are annoyingly difficult to contact, not helped by the move but they just seem to be lousy at answering the phone or replying to emails. I don't think they have full time secretarial support so I guess that makes it more difficult.

 

I've paid a big wodge of money (as per contract) so was very concerned by the negative financial info' given above; which is why I spoke to Kevin (emailed on Sunday and he called me 1st thing Monday so no delay there). I haven't seen the CCJs but I'm told they are mostly cleared and relate to some failed distributor arrangements earlier in the companies history. These also explain the lousy credit rating; which Kevin readily acknowledges.

 

I've always found Kevin and Richard to be pleasant and helpful and I do believe that they are completely genuine; working hard in difficult times. I've never been completely comfortable about the way boat builders work; you give them a big chunk of money and they go away and do a bit then you give them another big chunk of money etc. If they go broke at any point you stand to loose your last payment and at best are left with a big pile of bits and an incomplete boat.

 

Stillwater are no different to any of the other builders that I spoke to so I paid my money and crossed my fingers. My fingers are still crossed and will remain so until the boat hits the water but at the moment I'm no more or less anxious than I was over a year ago when I signed the contract.

 

Kevin also discussed some of the support issues and it seems to me there's two sides to most of these.

 

Our build started last week so I'm feeling a lot more comfortable now. Fingers crossed, we should be on the water later this summer.

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We are also trying to contact Stillwater. And have been for many months tried old and new numbers. Any joy yet?

 

If anyone does get in touch with them please ask them to call us a.s.a.p (as if that's going to happen)

 

Hi Kinver,

would i be right in assuming that you are one of the many suppliers Stillwater owe money to ? Eventually they will run out suppliers they can get stock from.

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Hi everybody,

Just thought that I'd give you my feelings about Stillwater Narrowboats.

I ordered a boat from them in September 2010 with delivery promised for July 2011. Needless to say that didn't happen.

We were asked for the 1st tranche of the money (as per contract) in May 2011 (£15,000) with the verbal promise that the build was on schedule.

When we went to the Crick boat show in 2011 and spoke to both Richard and Kevin we were suddenly told that the build was 6 weeks behind schedule. This change in about the space of two weeks!

We went home and thought about it and after a discussion with Richard, who couldn't even give me a start date for the build, we decided to cancel the build thereby losing our deposit of £1000. It was agreed that the money would be refunded to us within 28 days - yeah right!

I won't bore you with the details but suffice to say that after over 2 years we are still waiting for £8,000.

I don't like to kick people when they are down but, both of these people are liars of the 1st order. They NEVER call you back and it is impossible to contact them - either by phone or email. It's only when you start sending threatening letters that you get any response and then they will have some convoluted story to tell you - they shouldn't be boatbuilders but on Jackanory because they are good story tellers.

I see that Kevin has now Resigned as a Company Director (1st May 2013) and that Richard has resigned as a Director of CR & S Leisure Ltd (1st May 2013) leaving Suzanne Boyle as the sole Director. I believe she is Richards partner. Sounds dodgy?

My apologies for this rant and as its my first time on here if I have broken any rules then I also apologise.

But I hope my story will give anybody who is thinking of having a boat built by these people to think twice about handing money over to them in advance.

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My apologies for this rant and as its my first time on here if I have broken any rules then I also apologise.

But I hope my story will give anybody who is thinking of having a boat built by these people to think twice about handing money over to them in advance.

 

That's a moderators decision of course but if your information is factually correct there should be no problem with forewarning people I would say.

 

There seems to be enough information in this thread overall to support a 'trend' and enough to make me cross them off my list if I had been in the market for a new boat. As I said earlier in the the thread we spoke to these guys once at Crick and they appeared to us as 'newbie' boaters at least to know what they were doing.

 

Appearances of course can be deceptive.

Edited by The Dog House
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Sorry to bring you this bad news - I thought it was highly possible. Obviously don't know who issued the Order or whether it was voluntary.

Obviously I have lost a lot of money and I am sure there will be plenty of others - now tell me they are nice guysjudge.gif

So all those of you with boats with Warranty claims will have nowhere to go now other than to get those repairs sorted by yourselves.

 

From The London Gazette:

 

Date: 12 August 2013 Issue Number: 60594 Page number: 15966

Publication Date: Monday, 12 August 2013

Notice Code: 2452

Winding-Up Orders

STILLWATER NARROWBOATS LIMITED

(Company Number 06477275)

Address of Registered Office: UNIT 3C, HARRISON COURT, HILTON, DERBY, DERBYSHIRE, DE65 5UR .

In the High Court Of Justice No 004391 of 2013

Date of Filing Petition: 20 June 2013.

Date of Winding-up Order: 5 August 2013.


Official Receiver: G OHare 4th Floor, Wellington House, Wellington Street, LEICESTER,LE1 6HL, telephone: 0116 279 5800, email: Leicester.OR@insolvency.gsi.gov.uk

Liquidator

5 August 2013.

(1881683)

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If anyone has, one hopes that Mr. O'Hare the Receiver will have some money for them eventually. I don't know what percentage creditors can expect to retrieve. I have only once been involved in an insolvency case: a magazine for whom I wrote went bankrupt owing me £200 and I got just £30 back, not sure if this is typical.

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If anyone has, one hopes that Mr. O'Hare the Receiver will have some money for them eventually. I don't know what percentage creditors can expect to retrieve. I have only once been involved in an insolvency case: a magazine for whom I wrote went bankrupt owing me £200 and I got just £30 back, not sure if this is typical.

 

I doubt Macintosh will see much of the £8K they owe him.....

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I very much doubt if I will see a penny either.

Have just done some more digging and have found out that it was HMRC that issued the Order with the hearing on 5th August at the Royal Courts of Justice at 10.30am.

Interestingly, for me anyway, it was originally issued on 20th June and I was still in contact with Richard via email as I was due a small payment.

So he knew he was in deep do-do then, but he was still telling me on 27th JULY that he would pay me some money.

What a creep.

I just hope he doesn't start back up on Monday with a new name doing the same thing, but with a clean financial slate.

If he does I hope the suppliers out there will have the nuts to tell him to 'Go away'!!!!

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Very worrying, we have a boat currently in build with them, I have emailed and tried to contact them, last time I spoke with them a week ago they we moving premises from market Drayton to the ripley site where they build the hulls. I will keep you posted on any updates I get.

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Very worrying, we have a boat currently in build with them, I have emailed and tried to contact them, last time I spoke with them a week ago they we moving premises from market Drayton to the ripley site where they build the hulls. I will keep you posted on any updates I get.

 

Not good at all - hope you are able to salvage something from it.

 

Just a further thought but should you not now be trying to contact the receivers rather than Stillwater - I suspect you will expend a lot of time and effort trying to contact them direct with no success.

Edited by The Dog House
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Very worrying, we have a boat currently in build with them, I have emailed and tried to contact them, last time I spoke with them a week ago they we moving premises from market Drayton to the ripley site where they build the hulls. I will keep you posted on any updates I get.

 

In that case get in touch with the Official Receiver urgently to stake your claim on your property.

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Very worrying, we have a boat currently in build with them, I have emailed and tried to contact them, last time I spoke with them a week ago they we moving premises from market Drayton to the ripley site where they build the hulls. I will keep you posted on any updates I get.

You have my sympathies, but as others have said you (and I) will now have to deal with the Official Receiver. I shall be emailing him on Monday.

Stillwater Narrowboats Limited is effectively run by the OR now and the Directors(s) can't do anything without his agreement, to do so would make them personally liable for any transactions.

On another note where have they got the money from to move from Market Drayton to Ripley from? They don't have a dime to spare.

According to their last published accounts (31st January 2012) they had Liabilities of £252,272; Assets of £167,243; Cash £307;

Net Worth -£67,085.

No wonder they couldn't pay their bills.

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I have just spoken to the Official Receiver in Leicester and have registered my interest in this debacle.

They informed me that the Sheffield office is dealing with this matter.

The details are:

Examiner: Betty Bedford T: 0114 221 6184

Case Officer: Adam Cooper T: 0114 221 6191

So if anybody else wants to make a claim against Stillwater, then these are the people to contact.

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From their website:

 

"We guarantee your boat will be unique, bespoke, custom-built to your requirements, to fulfil your dream. For us, every customer is special, every boat we build is a voyage we make in partnership with you.

 

From bare steel hull to launching your boat, we’ll make the journey together...

to ensure that your vision becomes a reality."

 

Sickening.

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Or perhaps saddening, Mark. They no doubt believed every word when they started the company, but were unable to make the business profitable.

Where do these companies go wrong?? I really wonder.

 

You get a deposit and then your customer pays in installments. You progress the build in line with the payments received, near completion you get paid the outstanding amount...

 

If someone doesn't pay a staged payment for whatever reason, halt the build.

 

What am I missing?

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Where do these companies go wrong?? I really wonder.

 

You get a deposit and then your customer pays in installments. You progress the build in line with the payments received, near completion you get paid the outstanding amount...

 

If someone doesn't pay a staged payment for whatever reason, halt the build.

 

What am I missing?

Unforeseen costs, price rises, bad budgeting, equipment breakdown, higher wages/drawings than originally budgetted, panic sales at loss-making prices, naughtiness

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Unforeseen costs, price rises, bad budgeting, equipment breakdown, higher wages/drawings than originally budgetted, panic sales at loss-making prices, naughtiness

Yet some seem to manage all of those (bar the naughtiness) and survive...

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I suppose it's sensitive to volume.

 

To keep running, you must turn around a number of boats - say 3 per year - lose one of those during the year may put you on a course of disaster.

 

I am shareholder and Director of a multi £ business, employing around 10 persons. We are fortunate in that we do around 70-100 projects a year - if we lose a couple due to cancellation, it hurts but is not terminal. If there is an economic turndown - or we lose a load of jobs to our competitors we take less dividends as staff have to be paid - but we normally have enough projects to keep the lights going for 18 months before we run out of work..

 

Another thing is that you can imagine a small talented fab team - talented at welding but not at running as business.

 

Finally we should not forget what utter b*astards banks are - any hint of financial trouble and foreclosure is a real possiblity even if you have a great past track record.

Edited by mark99
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Yet some seem to manage all of those (bar the naughtiness) and survive...

 

We are in the worst financial crisis since 1929. All boat-builders have been hit, and many (like other businesses) have gone to the wall.

 

Most businesses need premises. They forecast how much work they expect to get, and then acquire a suitable lease. If the work doesn't materialise, the business still has to pay the rent until the end of the lease, or any break-point in it. The equipment will have been financed as well, and the finance company will need paying. These are called fixed costs and have to be paid even if sales fall to zero.

 

It really isn't difficult to see why companies fail when times are hard.

 

Those companies that do survive may be long-established, with substantial reserves. They may own their premises. They may have a very good reputation, and suffer nothing worse than a shortening of the waiting list. But for most, the last few years have been very tough.

 

Yes, people whose businesses are failing tend to be economical with the truth. But often they are facing ruin, and under great stress.

 

There's another side to every story.

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We are in the worst financial crisis since 1929. All boat-builders have been hit, and many (like other businesses) have gone to the wall.

 

Most businesses need premises. They forecast how much work they expect to get, and then acquire a suitable lease. If the work doesn't materialise, the business still has to pay the rent until the end of the lease, or any break-point in it. The equipment will have been financed as well, and the finance company will need paying. These are called fixed costs and have to be paid even if sales fall to zero.

 

It really isn't difficult to see why companies fail when times are hard.

 

Those companies that do survive may be long-established, with substantial reserves. They may own their premises. They may have a very good reputation, and suffer nothing worse than a shortening of the waiting list. But for most, the last few years have been very tough.

 

Yes, people whose businesses are failing tend to be economical with the truth. But often they are facing ruin, and under great stress.

 

There's another side to every story.

My understanding reading the thread is that Stillwater had a list of builds, backing up actually. They were not as far as I read suffering from a lack of work.

 

Economical with the truth is different from downright deceit.

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