12 volt fridge problem

[lesrollins]

Can anyone help with this one please.

 

From time to time the red light on our 12 volt fridge gives three flashes. The fridge is usually kept on setting number 2, when the red light flashes I can adjust the thermostat to setting number 6 and the motor will kick in and the flashing stops. Even when I turn the thermostat back down to number 2 the motor carries on running. But from time to time the led light flashes but when I turn the thermostat up the motor kicks in again and the light stops.

 

I have looked through the paperwork on the fridge and the danfoss instructions show the error type for three flashes is Motor start error (the rotor is blocked or the differential pressure in the refrigerationsystem is to too high (>5 bar) Where do I find the rotor and / or adjust the differential pressure. What causes the pressure to go up ?

 

The other paperwork on the fridge is by ranger refrigeration and the code error 3 again states motor start error. Possible reason differential pressure high. Correction will reset by itself and clear. ( will happen now and again )

 

I have hoovered the rear of the fridge and cleaned all the dust out.

 

I have tried contacting ranger refrigeration given on the paperwork 01527 821132 but the number is not recognized.

 

On the back of the fridge there is this information.

 

Danfoss motor BD35F 12/24 v dc LBP/MBP R134A

 

Pentane Model ER550AW Serial 442204060

 

The inventory on the boat shows it as a LEC 12v 5cuFT

 

Where will I get parts for this fridge if I need any and do Ranger Refrigeration still exist ?

 

Thanks for reading

[BEngo]

Can anyone help with this one please.

 

From time to time the red light on our 12 volt fridge gives three flashes. The fridge is usually kept on setting number 2, when the red light flashes I can adjust the thermostat to setting number 6 and the motor will kick in and the flashing stops. Even when I turn the thermostat back down to number 2 the motor carries on running. But from time to time the led light flashes but when I turn the thermostat up the motor kicks in again and the light stops.

 

I have looked through the paperwork on the fridge and the danfoss instructions show the error type for three flashes is Motor start error (the rotor is blocked or the differential pressure in the refrigerationsystem is to too high (>5 bar) Where do I find the rotor and / or adjust the differential pressure. What causes the pressure to go up ?

 

The other paperwork on the fridge is by ranger refrigeration and the code error 3 again states motor start error. Possible reason differential pressure high. Correction will reset by itself and clear. ( will happen now and again )

 

I have hoovered the rear of the fridge and cleaned all the dust out.

 

I have tried contacting ranger refrigeration given on the paperwork 01527 821132 but the number is not recognized.

 

On the back of the fridge there is this information.

 

Danfoss motor BD35F 12/24 v dc LBP/MBP R134A

 

Pentane Model ER550AW Serial 442204060

 

The inventory on the boat shows it as a LEC 12v 5cuFT

 

Where will I get parts for this fridge if I need any and do Ranger Refrigeration still exist ?

 

Thanks for reading

 

 

The error is there because the control unit thinks the pressure between the compressor and the condensor in the fridge has not fallen low enough for the motor to be able to start the compressor. As the book says, the pressure will fall naturally given time after the compressor stops and the condensor does its thing. In your case I think either the pressure detector is at fault or the control unit is duff. I come to this conclusion because adjusting the thermostat causes a re-start, but I can see no reason why this should be so.

 

The Danfoss BD35 and associated electronic unit are the commonest 12v fridge compressor and are used by others- including shoreline who also convert Lec fridges from 240v to 12v. If the pressure detector is U/S then you will need a fridge fitter as the fridge may need new gas. I would not be surporised to find that a repair was more expensive than a replacement fridge!

 

Ranger Refrigeration Limited was dissolved in August 2009 but Limekiln are still listing fridges by them so maybe they just ceased to be a limited company and now have new premises.

 

Maybe a call to Limekiln would find out their current contact but I would be inclined to talk to Shoreline.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

Can anyone help with this one please.

 

From time to time the red light on our 12 volt fridge gives three flashes. The fridge is usually kept on setting number 2, when the red light flashes I can adjust the thermostat to setting number 6 and the motor will kick in and the flashing stops. Even when I turn the thermostat back down to number 2 the motor carries on running. But from time to time the led light flashes but when I turn the thermostat up the motor kicks in again and the light stops.

 

I have looked through the paperwork on the fridge and the danfoss instructions show the error type for three flashes is Motor start error (the rotor is blocked or the differential pressure in the refrigerationsystem is to too high (>5 bar) Where do I find the rotor and / or adjust the differential pressure. What causes the pressure to go up ?

 

The other paperwork on the fridge is by ranger refrigeration and the code error 3 again states motor start error. Possible reason differential pressure high. Correction will reset by itself and clear. ( will happen now and again )

 

I have hoovered the rear of the fridge and cleaned all the dust out.

 

I have tried contacting ranger refrigeration given on the paperwork 01527 821132 but the number is not recognized.

 

On the back of the fridge there is this information.

 

Danfoss motor BD35F 12/24 v dc LBP/MBP R134A

 

Pentane Model ER550AW Serial 442204060

 

The inventory on the boat shows it as a LEC 12v 5cuFT

 

Where will I get parts for this fridge if I need any and do Ranger Refrigeration still exist ?

 

Thanks for reading

 

 

Another member says dirty fuses and loose connections can also cause this error code although Shoreline do not agree. Shoreline says it can be a faulty thermostat.

 

You do not find the rotor because it is inside the sealed compressor unit which is full of refrigerant gas that needs handling correctly.

 

Personally I would not mention Ranger and phone Shoreline and ask about your local service engineer. The guts \are all the same across most of the modern 12V fridge makes.

[Bobbybass]

I had this problem with my Shoreline. It was worse during times when my batteries were charging above 14 volts.....as sometimes..I use my Travelpower to drive the battery charger..and this causes it to start flashing.

 

I have now cured it...but it was complicated.

I made up a 12 volt stabilisor using a a low-dropout regulator and power transistors banked up...to 10 amp capability.

If you have somebody who can make up circuits..there are several diagrams on the net...they are not that involved....and all parts are available on Ebay (couldn't get much from Maplins...they are a bit limited these days)

 

Other than that....nothing else seemed to do the trick for me...

 

Here are some circuit ideas..

http://www.reuk.co.uk/High-Current-Voltage-Regulation.htm

Edited July 31, 2012 by Bobbybass

[Pretty Funked Up]

Another member says dirty fuses and loose connections can also cause this error code although Shoreline do not agree. Shoreline says it can be a faulty thermostat.

 

The triple flash simply means the motor did not complete a full rotation. It could be jammed, held back by pressure etc. There can be many causes, including duff batteries,cables or connections. Sorry shoreline dont agree, I just know that it happens.... unfortunately

 

"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth." its great for fault finding

Edited July 31, 2012 by Pretty Funked Up

[rgreg]

If you speak to a chap called Paul at Inlander refrigeration on 0121 4212555 you will find him very helpful. If you're near Birmingham you can take the fridge to them and they will look at it and quote for repair.

[Theo]

I wonder if this is a good reason for running an inverter and a 230V cheapo refrigerator?

 

I had a look at the prices of fridges in MC at Braunston today £500+. I got an A rated 230V jobbie from Curries last year for £120.

 

Nick

[rgreg]

I wonder if this is a good reason for running an inverter and a 230V cheapo refrigerator?

 

I had a look at the prices of fridges in MC at Braunston today £500+. I got an A rated 230V jobbie from Curries last year for £120.

 

Nick

I think you have a point here. I am currently running a cheap 240 volt fridge whilst I decide whether to repair/replace my 12 volt one. I'm not sure I can justify the additional cost as so far the 240 volt fridge is fine. It's just accepting the permanent reliance on the inverter when out and about; I'm not sure there is a significantly noticeable difference in power consumption.

[bowten]

I wonder if this is a good reason for running an inverter and a 230V cheapo refrigerator?

 

I had a look at the prices of fridges in MC at Braunston today £500+. I got an A rated 230V jobbie from Curries last year for £120.

 

Nick

I agree,if you have an inverter buy an A rated 240volt fridge.

[lesrollins]

Since pulling the fridge out and turning the power off to hoover behind it the fridge as been okay for a couple of days. But again the red light is flashing until you turn the thermostat up so the motor kicks in. Anyone got a contact number for shoreline or anyone in the gloucester area who knows about 12v fridges. Cheers

[rgreg]

Since pulling the fridge out and turning the power off to hoover behind it the fridge as been okay for a couple of days. But again the red light is flashing until you turn the thermostat up so the motor kicks in. Anyone got a contact number for shoreline or anyone in the gloucester area who knows about 12v fridges. Cheers

Shoreline 01903 733877 or ,as I mentioned in a previous post, Inlander on 0121 4212555 are very helpful too.

[smileypete]

Since pulling the fridge out and turning the power off to hoover behind it the fridge as been okay for a couple of days. But again the red light is flashing until you turn the thermostat up so the motor kicks in. Anyone got a contact number for shoreline or anyone in the gloucester area who knows about 12v fridges. Cheers

It sounds like a loose connection somewhere between fridge and batts; crimp connector, crimp, terminal block, isolator, batt terminal. If the connection drops out for a second or two the fridge will stop and be unable to restart due to back pressure.

 

It could be a loose connection inside the fridge between terminals, thermostat, compressor module but that's much less likely. If all the external wiring checks out, one way to narrow it down would be connect with new wiring to a power supply or batt/charger right next to the fridge, via a fuse.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 3, 2012 by smileypete

[lesrollins]

Thanks i will try and look for a loose connection we have been on the boat since march and the problem as only just occured i will give the two numbers a ring also. The problem only occurs every now and then so i wouldn,t say its a serious problem.

[trackman]

Our Shoreline fridge gives the same error message sometimes. It usually goes away after a time but I've found that turning off the circuit breaker of the fridge supply momentarily is a way of speeding up matters that always quickly resets the thing and makes it run normally once more.

 

I haven't conducted serious investigations into when the error occurs, but I have the impression that it is associated with extremes of battery voltage, whether high or low. Often it has happened when we've had the engine running over a long days boating, and the batteries are very well charged. Interestingly it has also happened on very sunny days when we haven't run the engine much, if at all, but the solar panel has pushed the battery voltages well up.

 

Low battery voltage has also apparently triggered a similar occurrence, but more rarely as we don't make a habit of letting the batteries drop that low.

 

I think you have possibly got the same thing going on here, but perhaps compounded by a thermostat fault that means the fridge doesn't always restart when the error is cleared.

 

 

[smileypete]

One other cause of three flashes could be inadequate/poor ventilation behind the fridge causing the back pressure in the condenser to get too high, this would be more likely to happen in hot weather and/or when the fridge has a load of stuff just put in.

 

But if ventilation is fine, a way tell if the supply is dropping out is to make a latch relay circuit from spare bits and connect it to a panel bulb or 12V LED bulb:

 

 

Once it's triggered the relay coil is powered via the relay contacts. If the supply cuts out for a second the relay contacts open and the relay coil and load can no longer be powered, even if the supply comes back.

 

There's a Danfoss spec sheet on this linky, looks like the max voltage is 17V:

 

http://www.novakool.com/support/bd35f_compressor_data.pdf

 

Edit: Good ventilation, good wiring and connections, that just about sums it up...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 4, 2012 by smileypete

[bowten]

Is your wiring to the fridge of an adequate thickness,otherwise there can be voltage drop.

[lesrollins]

We do have 2 x 140w solar panels so it may be that causing the problem as it never happened before. The fridge as been on the boat since 2005 but as nevet been used as a liveaboard until we took it over in march and was only used occasionally prior to this. As a stoke on trent built boat with a good reputation i should imagine the wiring would be sufficient. Next time the fault occurs i will see what happens when i turn the power off and then back on rather than turn the thermostat up to restart the motor. I am off work mon and tues so i will give shoreline and the other number a ring.

[pistnbroke]

clearly if the thing starts when you up the thermostat it cannot be back pressure or motor fault or supply problem.....sounds like a duff thermostat to me ...

[Bobbybass]

 

 

I haven't conducted serious investigations into when the error occurs, but I have the impression that it is associated with extremes of battery voltage, whether high or low. Often it has happened when we've had the engine running over a long days boating, and the batteries are very well charged. Interestingly it has also happened on very sunny days when we haven't run the engine much, if at all, but the solar panel has pushed the battery voltages well up.

 

Low battery voltage has also apparently triggered a similar occurrence, but more rarely as we don't make a habit of letting the batteries drop that low.

 

I think you have possibly got the same thing going on here, but perhaps compounded by a thermostat fault that means the fridge doesn't always restart when the error is cleared.

 

This was my observation...and ...as I said above..making up a stabilisor circuit has completely cured it.

Firstly (though)..I had made up a bank of capacitors in case it was caused by momentary low/zero voltage.

This had the reverse effect...if the fridge started flashing..I couldn't get it to reset which indicated that it was being caused by the high(above 14 volts) supply.

I then made up the stabilisor (link above) and hold the voltage at exactly 12 volts..reusing my capacitor bank to stabilise it at exactly 12 volts.

Bingo....completely cured..

[Gibbo]

I then made up the stabilisor (link above) and hold the voltage at exactly 12 volts..reusing my capacitor bank to stabilise it at exactly 12 volts.

 

The problem with that circuit is that it doesn't work.

[trackman]

Some further comments after seeing the posts made since my first:

 

- our boat has a very chunky and separate circuit for the fridge, and the fault has occurred from time to time since the boat was new, so I'm sure that in our case it's not a voltage drop issue.

 

- I've installed a computer cooling fan behind our fridge, drawing cool air from below the floor when the fridge compressor is running, so I'm sure it isn't poor ventilation.

 

- the OP may be reassured by our experience in that our fridge is coming up to 6 years old and appears to have suffered no harm from the phenomenon of the 3 red flashes error.

 

It can obviously be a problem if the fridge contents warm up due to the fridge being left in the error state, and I haven't found a real solution to this one. As we live aboard and check the thing pretty frequently this hasn't been a major problem for us though.

 

 

[Bobbybass]

The problem with that circuit is that it doesn't work.

It works for me...?...

I am using a low-dropout regulator...and the voltage on my Whitegold meter is only a fraction above 12 volts all the time...

Maybe....I need a Smartgauge...?

I could put it in my beer and measure how cold its gotten...

Edited August 5, 2012 by Bobbybass

[Gibbo]

It works for me...?...

I am using a low-dropout regulator...and the voltage on my Whitegold meter is only a fraction above 12 volts all the time...

Maybe....I need a Smartgauge...?

I could put it in my beer and measure how cold its gotten...

 

That circuit will turn a low dropout regulator into a not low dropout regulator, plus the voltage drop of the base-emitter junction of the external pass transistor.

 

Measure your output voltage with the fridge running and your batteries at 12 volts and you'll find out.

 

And stop trying to be a smartarse. You're crap at it.

[Bobbybass]

That circuit will turn a low dropout regulator into a not low dropout regulator, plus the voltage drop of the base-emitter junction of the external pass transistor.

 

Measure your output voltage with the fridge running and your batteries at 12 volts and you'll find out.

 

And stop trying to be a smartarse. You're crap at it.

Well...I only 'linked' that circuit diagram as an example...without studying it...

I wondered how long it would take you to spot the problem...

If only I had a Smartgauge..I would have realised...

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

A previous owner of our boat put in a 3KW inverter. If I run that just to cool the fridge (230V - uesd to have shoreline electric, we now don't) intermittently, say an hour a day is that pointless, going to knacker the battery, or what? Does anyone knwo what minimum size inverter we would need to run the fridge, instead of the 3KW?

 

Mrs. Day is looking into getting a 12V fridge and I want to know we are going the right way!

 

cheers Jas