what happened to tick over??

[BlueStringPudding]

Tickover is pretty meaningless - a reasonable tickover on our boat is around 80 rpm whearas some modern engines would stall at ten times that speed.

 

Most reasonable and considerate boaters will pass moored boats at a speed that suits the conditions. It doesn't have a great deal to do with draught, size of prop or engine speed - it has more to do with the way the water moves and the size and shape of the canal but it has everything to do with choosing the right speed. Too much speed and, where we moor, even a shallow draughted canoe can cause our boat to rock violently - on the other hand, when we have been moored on deeper waters boats have been able to pass us at more than 5 mph without causing problems.

 

Caution and consideration for the safety of others should always be the prime concern - most boats moor up properly but when passing an apparently moored boat you never know for certain what to expect. An unusual example of this includes a boat that had stopped because one of the crew had fallen overboard between the boat and the piling - passing that boat at an inconsiderate speed might have caused the person in the water to have been crushed and killed - by approaching with caution we were able to render assistance rather than make the situation worse.

 

Also you never know what the circumstances are inside the boat - I was once knocked off my feet at a time when I had one leg in plaster and had been unable to attend to the mooring lines that had slackened with a change in water level.

 

More frequently, it may be that someone in the moored boat is pouring a cup of tea or removing a roast from the oven - a sudden movement could cause scalding liquid to spill - or the may be down the weed hatch removing debris from the prop - there are endless reasons for proceeding with caution past moored craft . . .

 

[nicknorman]

I think the OP needs to learn to use springs.

 

 

That is what Florence said to Boater Zeberdee, but he misunderstood.

 

Springs are great, but can still fail if staked into soft ground and repeatedly pulled by passing speeders.

[alan_fincher]

I make a list of anyone who passes me and (in my opinion) could have been more considerate.

If I then see the moored..I go full throttle and close.

Very close..

 

It makes me feel good..and thats what counts...

This is possibly the saddest (and most ridiculous post) I have seen in many a month.

 

I really do hope it was an attempt at humour!

[Chris Pink]

But surely, being a moorer on the K&A you never move anyway, so obviously no need to slow down if you are already stationary?

You shouldn't believe the hype. My mooring's not on the Kennet and Avon though my stamping ground includes it.

 

ps you're supposed to be ignoring me remember.

[alan_fincher]

(Here we go again!...)

 

(I really don't know why I get involved in this nonsense......)

 

If anybody thinks "tick-over" is a meaningful measure of speed, and has some time on their hands to visit us a couple of times, please allow me to demonstrate "tick-over" on "Chalice", then, subsequently "tick-over" on "Sickle".

 

Perhaps anybody who is happy that I pass them on "Sickle's" tick-over, whatever the canal depth or conditions, can make themselves known, and, if I spot you, I'll not bother to knock her out of gear, even if that looks like the correct action to me! (Don't complain though, I will after all be on your prescribed "tick-over", even if you move about quite a bit).

 

On the other hand though, please don't force me to pass every boat on "Chalice's" tick-over - that really is ridiculous overkill most of the time.

 

Boats are all different, (Chalice prop 17" - Sickle prop 26" - a full 2.4 times the area "swept" by Chalice's), waterways are all different.

 

Please stop inventing "one size fits all" solutions that are not solutions at all.

[bizzard]

Look i'm sorry folks but i'm pissed on rum at the mo so can't respond much at the mo.

[nicknorman]

You shouldn't believe the hype. My mooring's not on the Kennet and Avon though my stamping ground includes it.

 

ps you're supposed to be ignoring me remember.

A good fisherman will appear to ignore the fish, meanwhile dangling a baited hook into the water...

[Smelly]

There have been occasions when trying to comply with the apparent requirement to pass boats in such a manner as to permit uninterupted microsurgery on board would have resulted in us hitting every one of them on the lee side of the cut.

 

at the same time, having been naed and shamed for going tearing past moored boats with ne'er a flick of the throttle I doubt NBT are best placed to comment!

[Gazboatman]

I brought my boat all the way from Gloucester and made a point of going past every boat slow, and I only got one person moaning that I was going too fast which was on the shroppie coincidently. I wasn't going too fast as I had passed 100's of boats at the same speed and everyone else waved or smiled.

 

Can I ask how a boat going past you a little faster than expected knocked your coffee off your table??

 

Maybe you were that one person I passed on the shroppie?

 

Just find it hard to believe a boat passing can knock a drink off a table, unless it was on the edge to start with.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Gazboatman

[PhilR]

Look i'm sorry folks but i'm pissed on rum at the mo so can't respond much at the mo.

 

Jamaica ?

[MtB]

I wish people would stop using engine revs as a measure in this particular issue. It means nothing.

 

The issue is about wash, and the disturbance a boat leaves in it's wake. Different engines tick over at different speeds. Mine is a small and therefore relatively high revving engine. I tire of the miserable moaners who shout 'slow down' as I pass. More often than not they have not even looked at the wake of my boat, it hasn't reached them yet! As in all walks of life, some people on the cut need to find something worthwhile to stress about!

 

Its worrying that someone so experienced in boating demonstrates such a total lack of understanding.

 

The issue is the volume of water that has to pass from in front of a moving boat to behind it, as the moving boat progresses along the cut. This volume of water is equal to the displacement of the hull, and flows 'backwards' along the sides of the boat as it progresses. It is this 'backwards' flow that moves the boats you pass, and causes the resentment, not your wash.

[NB Alnwick]

Its worrying that someone so experienced in boating demonstrates such a total lack of understanding.

 

The issue is the volume of water that has to pass from in front of a moving boat to behind it, as the moving boat progresses along the cut. This volume of water is equal to the displacement of the hull, and flows 'backwards' along the sides of the boat as it progresses. It is this 'backwards' flow that moves the boats you pass, and causes the resentment, not your wash.

 

But that doesn't explain everything - our boat gets well and truly rocked by passing canoes - especially when there is a race on.

 

I still believe that the only way to pass moored boats (and any other obstruction or hazard) is to proceed with extreme caution. It should not be necessary to drop out of gear unless the combination of prop, gearbox and engine is completely wrong - any well designed narrow boat should be perfectly capable of navigating safely at a quarter or half of the normal permitted canal speed!

 

And for those who are unable to steer at slow speed, I can recommend the RYA Helmsmen's Course as a good starter . . .

[Chris Pink]

Its worrying that someone so experienced in boating demonstrates such a total lack of understanding.

 

The issue is the volume of water that has to pass from in front of a moving boat to behind it, as the moving boat progresses along the cut. This volume of water is equal to the displacement of the hull, and flows 'backwards' along the sides of the boat as it progresses. It is this 'backwards' flow that moves the boats you pass, and causes the resentment, not your wash.

 

Rubbish.

 

Its worrying that someone so experienced in boating demonstrates such a total lack of understanding.

 

What about canoes?

[Leni]

Look i'm sorry folks but i'm pissed on rum at the mo so can't respond much at the mo.

 

You're in the wrong thread, Bizz! The one about boating 'under the influence' is in another forum!

[ChrisPy]

On many of the waterways that you are unfamiliar with, considerately may well mean well above tickover.

just a gentle reminder that this is Canal World Forum, which to 98% of members is concerned with those inland canals that are predominantly used for leisure purposes.

 

how is unfamiliarity with other types of waterway relevant to this thread?

 

 

 

............. and I will not draw attention to your own record in this area of expertise(?) ........... OOPS, I just did

[bizzard]

You're in the wrong thread, Bizz! The one about boating 'under the influence' is in another forum!

Oh!

[Naughty Cal]

just a gentle reminder that this is Canal World Forum, which to 98% of members is concerned with those inland canals that are predominantly used for leisure purposes.

 

how is unfamiliarity with other types of waterway relevant to this thread?

 

 

 

............. and I will not draw attention to your own record in this area of expertise(?) ........... OOPS, I just did

 

May I draw your attention the the Northern Inland Waterway System. Wide deep CANALS (this shouting must be catching) where there is absolutely no need to slow down to tickover to pass moored boats and if you do chances are you will just be overtaken by the boat/commercial vessel following you. Not all inland waterways are muddy shallow ditches

 

Brayford Pool?

 

 

 

Absolutely. Slow down to tick over on Brayford Pool and someone will offer you a tow because they will think you have broken down

 

 

 

And for those who are unable to steer at slow speed, I can recommend the RYA Helmsmen's Course as a good starter . . .

 

And as I say everytime that this topic rears its ugly head. I invite you to come and steer NC at slow speed

[Ray T]

Jamaica ?

 

No - she went of her own accord.

[Naughty Cal]

No - she went of her own accord.

 

Would you like your coat sir?

[Ray T]

Would you like your coat sir?

 

Bit hot for a coat today, will a T shirt do?

 

Never mind tick over, I think leaving at full throttle would be more appropriate!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

It should not be necessary to drop out of gear unless the combination of prop, gearbox and engine is completely wrong - any well designed narrow boat should be perfectly capable of navigating safely at a quarter or half of the normal permitted canal speed!

Which, (certainly if you go for your "one quarter of" figure), I think would mean the vast majority of historic working boats on the circuit by your measure are not "well designed".

 

If you take 4mph as the normal permitted maximum, I remain unconvinced that many wouldn't be doing a great deal more than 1mph at tick-over.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised if "Alnwick" can really keep consistently at no more than 1mph on any canal, if never dropped out of gear. Certainly many boats with an engine with those kind of characteristics would struggle to, so if you can, I suspect her prop must be more "modest" than many ?

[NB Alnwick]

 

>snipped<

 

And as I say everytime that this topic rears its ugly head. I invite you to come and steer NC at slow speed

 

It must be possible to steer your boat at low speed - otherwise it would be completely out of control when casting off and moving away from your mooring pontoon (if you start from a stand you will be travelling at less than 2mph initially) and also when approaching your mooring/pontoon to tie-up. Unless you just slam into the pontoon at normal cruising speed.

 

I think the real reason why people are incapable of steering at low speed is because it requires a great deal more skill and concentration than may be the case at cruising speed. The same is true going astern - there are many that make a mess of that too and for the same reason . . .

[nicknorman]

Which, (certainly if you go for your "one quarter of" figure), I think would mean the vast majority of historic working boats on the circuit by your measure are not "well designed".

 

If you take 4mph as the normal permitted maximum, I remain unconvinced that many wouldn't be doing a great deal more than 1mph at tick-over.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised if "Alnwick" can really keep consistently at no more than 1mph on any canal, if never dropped out of gear. Certainly many boats with an engine with those kind of characteristics would struggle to, so if you can, I suspect her prop must be more "modest" than many ?

And not just historic boats. Telemachus does around 2 mph at tickover, and in our marina, which is very deep, more than that, which makes sliding past other boats on the long pontoons slightly hairy! In fact I suspect it does about 2 mph backwards in tickover reverse once it has built speed up.

 

It must be possible to steer your boat at low speed - otherwise it would be completely out of control when casting off and moving away from your mooring pontoon (if you start from a stand you will be travelling at less than 2mph initially) and also when approaching your mooring/pontoon to tie-up. Unless you just slam into the pontoon at normal cruising speed.

 

 

Surely it is less to do with boat speed and more to do with engine speed. So when moving off / tying up, it is the prop wash that allows manoeuvring at low boat speed.

[Naughty Cal]

It must be possible to steer your boat at low speed - otherwise it would be completely out of control when casting off and moving away from your mooring pontoon (if you start from a stand you will be travelling at less than 2mph initially) and also when approaching your mooring/pontoon to tie-up. Unless you just slam into the pontoon at normal cruising speed.

 

I think the real reason why people are incapable of steering at low speed is because it requires a great deal more skill and concentration than may be the case at cruising speed. The same is true going astern - there are many that make a mess of that too and for the same reason . . .

 

When just in gear our boat is travelling at 3mph, even from a stand still it wont take her very far to be travelling at 3mph. That is the slowest, without the aid of wind or tide/flow that she can physically travel. It does mean that you have to be very accurate with your manouvering and know exactly how to handle the boat. The benefit of course is that she can spin and stop on a penny.

 

The invitation is always open for you to come and have a go for yourself and maybe it will change your stance. Afterall NC is far from a narrowboat and no amount of skill or concentration can make her anything other than what she is.

 

Going astern by the way isnt an issue for us.

[NB Alnwick]

Which, (certainly if you go for your "one quarter of" figure), I think would mean the vast majority of historic working boats on the circuit by your measure are not "well designed".

 

If you take 4mph as the normal permitted maximum, I remain unconvinced that many wouldn't be doing a great deal more than 1mph at tick-over.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised if "Alnwick" can really keep consistently at no more than 1mph on any canal, if never dropped out of gear. Certainly many boats with an engine with those kind of characteristics would struggle to, so if you can, I suspect her prop must be more "modest" than many ?

 

Navigating at 1 mph is no problem - you are welcome to join us for a demonstration of just how slow we can go with the engine ticking over at around 80 rpm. On the other hand such a slow speed is rarely necessary except when mooring up.

 

Given the nature of our canals with blind bends, narrow bridges and overhanging trees - in addition to moored boats, I cannot believe that any sensible person would design a narrow boat that can only navigate slowly if taken out of gear - surely the rudder will be less effective if there is no propulsion and as a result the steerer will have less control.