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Converting from tiller to wheel steering..


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I don't think this one has been covered before - but

 

Putting aside a sec. the wisdom of such a move but how practical/possible would it be to convert standard tiller steering on a standard narrowboat to wheel steering.

 

I think this was done with some of the older boats that used ply the Yorkshire waterways, but has anybody done it with a 'modern' boat.

 

NBInisfree who sadly no longer posts on here had done something similar I seem to recall, anybody else, what is used, cables, hydraulics...

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I think it's entirely possible, but the practicality is dependent on the installation of whatever mechanism is chosen to operate the rudder. I expect that both hydraulics or chains & pulleys would require a fair amount of expertise to install.

 

I think Kevin (Biggles) installed wheel steering himself so perhaps he's a good person to advise.

Edited by blackrose
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I don't think this one has been covered before - but

 

snip

 

anybody else, what is used, cables, hydraulics...

 

Shropshire Union/Dartline Frobishers had a wheel steering arrangement, involving long bowden cables for throttle and gear controls plus hydraulic ram at the tiller (just below deck level) for steering.

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Cables or hydraulics are both potential options.

 

Whether it's feasible depends on how the narrowboat has been put together - if (as is often the case) there's an integral diesel tank with the rudder tube passing through it, then there's nowhere below the counter to attach a quadrant to the rudder stock, and nowhere to attach blocks (for cable steering) or a hydraulic ram. They could be mounted above the counter, but are more likely to get in the way and may suffer damage from being exposed to the elements.

 

I have to ask, why would you want to convert a narrowboat to wheel steering? It's unlikely to be as responsive or give as much feedback as a tiller, and adds a fair bit of complexity.

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Never done it, but once saw a NB where wheel steering had been installed. It was to enable a member of the crew who was in a wheelchair to steer the boat.

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Steam narrow boat "Emily Anne" is wheel steered, so if Dan ever looks at his own forum, he may have some input to make.

 

I do remember though that Emily Anne had an "emergency tiller" that could be deployed if the wheel steering was not working.

 

Of course Emily Anne is barge style, and several of our local barge style narrow boats are wheel steered, although on those I have seen where tiller or wheel are an option, it is generally the tiller being used.

 

Wyvern Shipping's sea going "Ocean Princess" is otherwise a fairly conventional narrow boat that can be tiller steered at the back, or wheel steered from inside the front cabin. A bit spooky if all the lights are off, and it passes you in a tunnel, with nobody at the back, and the tiller apparently workings itself.

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Would it not be cheaper to buy a boat that already has wheel steering?

 

No idea to be honest I suppose that is what is partly behind the question in assessing what would be involved..

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Have a look at this video of the tug Growler.

 

The sector plate drops straight onto the rudder shaft, cables go through fairleads through the rear deck and into the cab, then a chain round a sprocket onthe steering wheel shaft. Add a couple of spring loaded tensioner (just in front of the steerers shins) and you're there.

 

 

 

Pintail has hydraulic steering using a Wills Ridley pump on which the the steering wheel is mounted, and a ram under the rear deck to push a bell crank on the rudder shaft.

 

I gather hydraulic systems are common on larger ships.

Edited by jake_crew
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Never done it, but once saw a NB where wheel steering had been installed. It was to enable a member of the crew who was in a wheelchair to steer the boat.

If its the one I am thinking of the lady was wheelchaire bound but most of the time her husband used the wheel steering as well. I think they now moor in the Stoke Bruerne? The we're down the Nene area

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I don't think this one has been covered before - but

 

Putting aside a sec. the wisdom of such a move but how practical/possible would it be to convert standard tiller steering on a standard narrowboat to wheel steering.

 

I think this was done with some of the older boats that used ply the Yorkshire waterways, but has anybody done it with a 'modern' boat.

 

NBInisfree who sadly no longer posts on here had done something similar I seem to recall, anybody else, what is used, cables, hydraulics...

Hydraulic steering is standard stuff on most river/sea going boats.

 

I have adapted a few boats to wheel and or tiller steering,cost of hydraulic ram and other stuff including the wheel will be less than a thousand quids.

 

simplest way is to site the ram adjacent to the base of the tiller crook,not tidy but easy to access,a pin and clip arrange ment can be used for quick release.

 

my preference would always be tiller on a canal boat.

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I think it's entirely possible, but the practicality is dependent on the installation of whatever mechanism is chosen to operate the rudder. I expect that both hydraulics or chains & pulleys would require a fair amount of expertise to install.

 

I think Kevin (Biggles) installed wheel steering himself so perhaps he's a good person to advise.

 

 

I did. Have a look at my blog. Use the search box with keywords rudder, ram, hydraulic, steering. All will be revealed

 

The mechanics of it are pretty straight forward to install. The lines are in kit form and easy.

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I don't think this one has been covered before - but

 

Putting aside a sec. the wisdom of such a move but how practical/possible would it be to convert standard tiller steering on a standard narrowboat to wheel steering.

 

I think this was done with some of the older boats that used ply the Yorkshire waterways, but has anybody done it with a 'modern' boat.

 

NBInisfree who sadly no longer posts on here had done something similar I seem to recall, anybody else, what is used, cables, hydraulics...

 

you need to order A BIG GIRLS BLOUSE, before the hydraulics.

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We did this to wide beam, and I would like to point out that I found it very confusing to get to grips with! I think it would help if you had some kind of marker on the wheel to let you know when it was in the 'straight' position! It took several turns and I always eneded up getting it wrong!! (could just be my driving I suppose)

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Hi

You can have the advantages of both systems without any great cost! The secret is to avoid the use of hydraulic operation and the associated huge cost and complication. Before installing my system I visited the London boat show with the intention of selecting a hydraulic system and a set of dual remote controls, instead, I found a number of suppliers of push/pull cable operated steering gear intended for offshore use. The set I selected had a maximum steering force of a third of a tonne!

The total cost (in 1998) for the steering gear,wheel,dual controls, and dual operating kit for the gearbox and throttle was 400 pounds. This compared very well with 1500 for just the hydraulic pump and ram, the connecting pipework, wheel, and controls etc all being additional costs.

 

 

I built and used the resulting 46 foot narrow boat for twelve years and consider the 400 pounds to be the best investment I ever made. I had thought that the wheel would only be usable on the river when the weather turned and I was unable to moor up and shelter. It proved to be just as useful on the narrow canals, once confidence is gained you can cruise through narrow bridges,wind the boat and even into locks using the wheel, its a brilliant way of boating in the winter!

I believe that you do need to leave the tiller in place and ready for use since there are many times when a full length view of the boat is vital to safe operation, and on days of good weather who would want to be inside?

The advantages of the cable are that you can actually feel the rudder through the wheel and both tiller and wheel can be left connected so you can move from one to the other without having to open or close bypass valves or disconnect anything. The wheel will spin when you operate the tiller and vice versa, it makes the tiller a little heavier to move but the only important move is to ensure that the single lever control is in neutral at the end you are not using!

The only small disadvantages are that the "traditionalists" tend to look down their noses ( usually while shivering and sniffling)and some inexperienced boaters tend to get excited on seeing a boat with no obvious steerer.

On the plus side, the miserable type of fisherman tends to look baffled when he finds nobody to sneer at or ignore. When I commissioned the boat and tried out the wheel, my passage through the first bridge was accompanied by a small voice saying "ere there's no bugger driving that one"

My advice is to go for it, you can't fail to enjoy it!!If you need me to fill in any details just let me know.

 

 

Best of luck with the project.

Mike Jordan

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I had a wheel steering option on a Dutch skutsje I owned for some years. It was mechanical using a chain arrangement. On most of our canals it is not very satisfactory - you are forever adjusting the direction which is far easier with a simple tiller.

 

Also, remember that it is a requirement of the RCD, should you choose a hydraulic system, for a boat to have an alternative manual means of steering.

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Hi

You can have the advantages of both systems without any great cost! The secret is to avoid the use of hydraulic operation and the associated huge cost and complication. Before installing my system I visited the London boat show with the intention of selecting a hydraulic system and a set of dual remote controls, instead, I found a number of suppliers of push/pull cable operated steering gear intended for offshore use. The set I selected had a maximum steering force of a third of a tonne!

The total cost (in 1998) for the steering gear,wheel,dual controls, and dual operating kit for the gearbox and throttle was 400 pounds. This compared very well with 1500 for just the hydraulic pump and ram, the connecting pipework, wheel, and controls etc all being additional costs.

 

 

I built and used the resulting 46 foot narrow boat for twelve years and consider the 400 pounds to be the best investment I ever made. I had thought that the wheel would only be usable on the river when the weather turned and I was unable to moor up and shelter. It proved to be just as useful on the narrow canals, once confidence is gained you can cruise through narrow bridges,wind the boat and even into locks using the wheel, its a brilliant way of boating in the winter!

I believe that you do need to leave the tiller in place and ready for use since there are many times when a full length view of the boat is vital to safe operation, and on days of good weather who would want to be inside?

The advantages of the cable are that you can actually feel the rudder through the wheel and both tiller and wheel can be left connected so you can move from one to the other without having to open or close bypass valves or disconnect anything. The wheel will spin when you operate the tiller and vice versa, it makes the tiller a little heavier to move but the only important move is to ensure that the single lever control is in neutral at the end you are not using!

The only small disadvantages are that the "traditionalists" tend to look down their noses ( usually while shivering and sniffling)and some inexperienced boaters tend to get excited on seeing a boat with no obvious steerer.

On the plus side, the miserable type of fisherman tends to look baffled when he finds nobody to sneer at or ignore. When I commissioned the boat and tried out the wheel, my passage through the first bridge was accompanied by a small voice saying "ere there's no bugger driving that one"

My advice is to go for it, you can't fail to enjoy it!!If you need me to fill in any details just let me know.

 

 

Best of luck with the project.

Mike Jordan

 

Where is your wheel steering position Mike? Is it inside at the front?

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Martin, why are you considering such a conversion, or is it just a theoretical study? Have you ever steered a boat wich a wheel? We hired one once and found it difficult owing to the delay between turning the wheel and anything actually happening.

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Hi Bazza

Yes the wheel is on the left hand front bulkhead, so there is roughly 38 foot behind the steerer and 8 foot in front. I put windows in the front bulkhead and in the doors, just the ones in the doors would have proved adequate in practice though. I didn't have any wipers to keep the rain off but relied on a motoring product called Rainex which kept most of the rain off the glass. If I were doing the job again I would try a single front door with a large glass panel and a wiper. On wet days in the summer I often moved along with the front doors open.

Experienced steerers found the set up easy to use, my son who was 14 at the time, found no difficulty in working the wheel, but he had been tiller steering the boat right from the days when he had to stand on a box to see over the roof.

I installed ignition and oil pressure warning lights, temperature gauge, horn button and engine stop button at the forward position as well. The last two seemed to keep the BSC surveyor happy.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Jordan
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Martin, why are you considering such a conversion, or is it just a theoretical study? Have you ever steered a boat wich a wheel? We hired one once and found it difficult owing to the delay between turning the wheel and anything actually happening.

 

Thinking about it for a future project, not for our current boat though, as for steering, no never steered a narrowboat so equipped but many a GRP hire cruiser, though the steering characteristics will I guess be very different...

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