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Converting from tiller to wheel steering..


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Sorry, I did not make it clear, the one which we hired was a GRPer, on the Canal du Nivernais. Mind you, it was only about 23 feet long, it may be that larger craft respond more positively to wheel steering - I hope so, or there would be many impacts on the European canals!

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Never done it, but once saw a NB where wheel steering had been installed. It was to enable a member of the crew who was in a wheelchair to steer the boat.

 

There is a boat like that at Saul Junction,converted for the same reason. I believe it is hydraulically worked.

 

Taslim.

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My old boat had wheel steering from forward, behind the wheel was a small log (round wood!) this had some turns of cable round and these went to the rudder quadrant under the gunwales and the stern decking.

 

The boat I recently looked at had a BIG bowden cable thing to steer two sterndrives from a midships wheel, other systems include a sealed hydraulic system where the wheel provides the power, and another system where the wheel or joystick or whatever simply moves hydraulic shuttle valves and the engine moves the rudder via rams or pistons.

 

You rapidly get used to the feel of either.

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You can get them with a joy stick for control if it is to be hydraulic.

 

Indeed you can for powered hydraulics, but that involves a major leap in complexity and cost.

 

'Mandraulics' would be far more appropriate for most canal boats

 

Tim

Edited by Timleech
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  • 6 months later...

I don't think this one has been covered before - but

 

Putting aside a sec. the wisdom of such a move but how practical/possible would it be to convert standard tiller steering on a standard narrowboat to wheel steering.

 

I think this was done with some of the older boats that used ply the Yorkshire waterways, but has anybody done it with a 'modern' boat.

 

NBInisfree who sadly no longer posts on here had done something similar I seem to recall, anybody else, what is used, cables, hydraulics...

 

I'm here!

 

Sorry if I have hijacked the thread but could be handy for somebody.

 

Mechanism is standard non hydraulic mechanical stuff and it has worked flawlessly, 2.5 turns lock to lock give plenty of feel, crank has proven to be much more usable than a wheel.

 

We have an emergency tiller which can be installed in a few mins.

 

50.jpg

 

Image007-1.jpg

Edited by nb Innisfree
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  • 3 years later...

I have hydraulic steering which was all boat jumble stuff and not hard to install but if I had seen 'Innisfree's' pictures I would have shamelessly copied it - maybe not the crank thingy but the rest of it is really excellent.

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I have hydraulic steering which was all boat jumble stuff and not hard to install but if I had seen 'Innisfree's' pictures I would have shamelessly copied it - maybe not the crank thingy but the rest of it is really excellent.

It is an extremely neat job. What unit is it?

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It is an extremely neat job. What unit is it?

If you mean ours it's just a standard Teleflex unit, available from most chandlers. Shortly after we had sold Innisfree it had to be replaced due to wear, not bad for approx 11000 hours use and only about £110 IIRCC. Crank handle is far better than a wheel which I used to get my hands caught up in the spokes.

 

ETA: If I had fitted the heavy duty option it might still be going?

Edited by nb Innisfree
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If you mean ours it's just a standard Teleflex unit, available from most chandlers. Shortly after we sold Innisfree it had to be replaced due to wear, not bad for approx 11000 hours use and only about £110 IIRCC. Crank handle is far better than a wheel which I used to get my hands caught up in the spokes.

Cheers. Looks a really good setup.

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Steam narrow boat "Emily Anne" is wheel steered, so if Dan ever looks at his own forum, he may have some input to make.

 

I do remember though that Emily Anne had an "emergency tiller" that could be deployed if the wheel steering was not working.

 

Of course Emily Anne is barge style, and several of our local barge style narrow boats are wheel steered, although on those I have seen where tiller or wheel are an option, it is generally the tiller being used.

 

I stick my nose in here from time to time...

 

 

Emilyanne is indeed wheel steering, having been built like that from new, the hull is 'dutch style' but certainly at the rear she is a fairly conventional 'modern narrowboat' in shape, although as she is also steam does not have a diesal tank at the rear which as already said is likely to be one of the main (if not unsurmountable) issues converting an existing boat.

 

Out system uses a 'rope and pulleys' system with a large steel quadrant just below the rear deck, with the ropes being attached to a length of chain which passes over a sprocket on the back of the wheel at the other end.

 

The original setup was based on the same plastic coated steel cable used for wheel steering on med/low powered outboards (think 10hp dory) which worked find but did not age well and certainly by the time I was involved was well beyond it best, the steel inner is only about 3-4mm and the plastic coating not overly durable. This was replaced with 8mm 'dyneema' sailing rope and associated pulleys which appears much more robust and durable, while still fitting in the existing rather tight packaging arrangement. The forces are significant and failure is far from desirable.

 

The other consideration is that with the rudder tube now finishing below deck, hard acceleration can over come it without care. We have a baffle on the rudder shaft just below the uxter plate, and an arrangement internally so that if there is any splashing it runs into the sterntube bilge area, rather than down the swim into the cabin and cabin bilge!

 

Hydraulics are easier to route, but you do loose the feedback and self centring, which I think would make it less enjoyable and even less intuitive to steer.

 

We do also have a swam neck and tiller under the back deck for emergencies, which while heavy can be depoled reasonably rapidly. The rudder post which comes through the deck is marked with a line to give rudder position indication when reversing/manoeuvring.

 

 

Daniel

*to add, i have just seen the date on this. Four years old!

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Daniel, you have a schilling style rudder if I remember it right, do you know how much balance area (%) you have?

 

I have a hydraulic on Dalslandia, no servo but just hand cranked wheel pump, as you say you lose some feeling, but not all, when moving the wheel you get the feeling for whats going on back there, when you don't the rudder stay in that angle.

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  • 2 months later...

If you mean ours it's just a standard Teleflex unit, available from most chandlers. Shortly after we had sold Innisfree it had to be replaced due to wear, not bad for approx 11000 hours use and only about £110 IIRCC. Crank handle is far better than a wheel which I used to get my hands caught up in the spokes.

 

ETA: If I had fitted the heavy duty option it might still be going?

I agree with Catweazle it does look a really good set up and very tidy i am considering buying a 25ft GRP Trad Stern Narrowboat which is GRP top and bottom my dilemma is that i wanted to make the stern more child friendly and fit some seats see my thread on the general forum titled (Extending the stern on a GRP Narrowboat). Forum member BWM suggested fitting a steering wheel to free up room on the stern and make safer ie no swinging tiller which i had not thought of and your set up looks perfect. I would love to know how you went about converting your boat to this system an idiots guide would be brilliant and i would really appreciate any advice or diagrams you have of how you actually did the job thanks in advance wink.png

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I agree with Catweazle it does look a really good set up and very tidy i am considering buying a 25ft GRP Trad Stern Narrowboat which is GRP top and bottom my dilemma is that i wanted to make the stern more child friendly and fit some seats see my thread on the general forum titled (Extending the stern on a GRP Narrowboat). Forum member BWM suggested fitting a steering wheel to free up room on the stern and make safer ie no swinging tiller which i had not thought of and your set up looks perfect. I would love to know how you went about converting your boat to this system an idiots guide would be brilliant and i would really appreciate any advice or diagrams you have of how you actually did the job thanks in advance wink.png

10 posts prior to yours shows the mechanism.

Edited by WotEver
  • Greenie 1
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  • 2 weeks later...

10 posts prior to yours shows the mechanism.

Yes that was the post i was referring to but would like to know where the cables were routed and if you are restricted to how many bends/curves are in the cable routing ? unsure.png

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Yes that was the post i was referring to but would like to know where the cables were routed and if you are restricted to how many bends/curves are in the cable routing ? unsure.png

Hi

 

Cable was routed under the side deck and then up to the unit mounted on the bulkhead, just two gentle bends, one going up from the side deck and one then going horizontally into the steering box. Quite simple, only fiddly bit was getting the correct radius for the hole in the rudder spindle plate.

 

ETA: Forgot the first bend on the rear deck visible in the picture.

Edited by nb Innisfree
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Hi,

Thank you for the reply this is the boat i am thinking of converting if i purchase it? it's a GRP Narrowboat top and bottom so very unique the rear checker plates are fixed and the forward two are the hinged inspection ones. My idea is to fit rails and seating to the rear fixed plates and to route steering the cables away from the front plates all should be doable biggrin.png thank you again for the reply and i repeat you have done a very neat job on Innisfree wink.png

post-26599-0-06912900-1485721938_thumb.jpg

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There's a 65' Narrowboat on my marina. It hasnt got a rudder, but a tube that swivels around the prop. I have the same set up. It steers almost just as well in reverse as it does going forward. I have a tiller and the other boat has wheel steering. I spoke to him and he said it steers forwards and backwards just like a car. If I ever had a new build, I would go for it. His is hydraulic and mine is just with a normal tiller. It's a bit heavier than a normal rudder set up but I think it's well worth it but not with a traditional rudder.

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