Council tax.

[pete.i]

Hi all

 

A friend of mine has been living on her boat for about 18 months. She is on a residential mooring at the Selby Boatyard. She has now decided that she is going to live ashore and is about to rent a cottage in her home village. She has been to the council, because at the moment she is paying council tax as a residential boat dweller, to inform then that she is moving off her boat and moving into the cottage. Her boat mooring will be changed from a residential mooring to a standard mooring and her boat wil be used purely for leisure. The council have told her that she will still have to pay council tax on her boat and, presumably, on her cottage. Surely this is not right. I do not pay council tax on my boat but I do on my house, obviously. Surely she should only have to pay one council tax and that would be when she moves into her cottage.

 

Any thoughts on this? I have to say she may well have got it wrong but she was quite adamant today that the council will require her to pay two sets of taxes. One for her boat that she will no longer be living on and one for cottage. I have told her to go to Citizens Advice Bureau but would also appreciate any advice from the forum.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[fuzzyduck]

my understanding is that unless she owned the mooring she was on, or was guanteed to be allowed to moor on the same spot for the period of time she was there she shouldn't have been paying council tax anyway.

 

The council are wrong.

 

Paging Smelly, he's the expert.

[steelaway]

Hi all

 

A friend of mine has been living on her boat for about 18 months. She is on a residential mooring at the Selby Boatyard. She has now decided that she is going to live ashore and is about to rent a cottage in her home village. She has been to the council, because at the moment she is paying council tax as a residential boat dweller, to inform then that she is moving off her boat and moving into the cottage. Her boat mooring will be changed from a residential mooring to a standard mooring and her boat wil be used purely for leisure. The council have told her that she will still have to pay council tax on her boat and, presumably, on her cottage. Surely this is not right. I do not pay council tax on my boat but I do on my house, obviously. Surely she should only have to pay one council tax and that would be when she moves into her cottage.

 

Any thoughts on this? I have to say she may well have got it wrong but she was quite adamant today that the council will require her to pay two sets of taxes. One for her boat that she will no longer be living on and one for cottage. I have told her to go to Citizens Advice Bureau but would also appreciate any advice from the forum.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

 

 

They might be considering it her second holiday home and holiday homes do now attract council tax.

This should not be apply to a boat.

 

Alex

[jelunga]

If the mooring is classed as residential abd the boat will be moored there, this is prob where they are coming from, classing it as a second home.

[Arthur Brown]

I think you will need some specific boat relevant case law, as second homes are chargeable but recreational boats are not, but this boat is residential so it could well count as owning a second (chargeable) home.

 

Time for qualified professional advice I think.

[jelunga]

If the mooring is classed as residential abd the boat will be moored there, this is prob where they are coming from, classing it as a second home.

 

Maybe

[fuzzyduck]

Fill ya boots

 

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/Manuals/CouncilTaxManual/council_tax_man_pn/p-ct-man-pn7.html

[pete.i]

Thanks all for that. It does seem that because she has been residential that the council could well be, now, classifying her boat as a second home. The mooring can be used as a residential mooring or a standard mooring and belongs to the selby Boatyard not the moorer. As I said she is changing her mooring from residential to standard when she moves into her cottage.

 

Anyway thanks Fuzzyduck for that I will trawl through that link (or maybe just print it out and let her trawl through it) and see what it turns up.

 

Thanks again all

 

Pete

[Smelly]

 

The council are wrong.

 

Paging Smelly, he's the expert.

 

Not necessarily; it depends on the mooring Ts & Cs... I've just seen the C&RT results and need a pint!

[WJM]

"Her boat mooring will be changed from a residential mooring to a standard mooring"

 

This surely is the crux; the mooring is a residence and so attracts council tax. I am not sure how you change the status of a residential mooring to a leisure one, but while it may save a bit on tax it will massively devalue the mooring itself. I doubt if anyone has ever done a downward reassignment like that. Residential moorings are rare and valuable.

 

It seems to me that she needs to move her boat to a leisure mooring. That may be a move of only a few feet, but the legal implications are significant.

[carlt]

"Her boat mooring will be changed from a residential mooring to a standard mooring"

 

This surely is the crux; the mooring is a residence and so attracts council tax. I am not sure how you change the status of a residential mooring to a leisure one, but while it may save a bit on tax it will massively devalue the mooring itself. I doubt if anyone has ever done a downward reassignment like that. Residential moorings are rare and valuable.

I would be surprised if you can change it back.

 

Surely, once residential planning permission is granted, you can't change it back and the accommodation is taxed as a second, unoccupied, home.

 

Assuming planning permission was required in the first place, of course.

 

 

It seems to me that she needs to move her boat to a leisure mooring.

Precisely. Have a greenie (edited to add...None left, sorry).

Edited March 13, 2012 by carlt

[Guest wanted]

I don't think you have to give a move on address when you end a council tax account. I gave a c/o address and they recalculated what I owed. As has been said, move the boat two feet to a mooring without planning permission and the council need never know where your boat is. But as I see it, whilst the boat is on a resi mooring then somebody will have to pay council tax.

[jonathanA]

and its worth noting that under changes introduced by the labour muppets when they were in power that the council tax on second homes usually only attacts a 10% discount (was 50% previously) so will cost your friend dearly to be paying for the boat as a second home...

[carlt]

and its worth noting that under changes introduced by the labour muppets when they were in power that the council tax on second homes usually only attacts a 10% discount (was 50% previously) so will cost your friend dearly to be paying for the boat as a second home...

If you can afford a second home I don't see why you shouldn't contribute.

 

The councils in popular tourist spots lose a significant amount of revenue due to holiday home owners not paying the full whack.

[Guest wanted]

If you can afford a second home I don't see why you shouldn't contribute.

 

The councils in popular tourist spots lose a significant amount of revenue due to holiday home owners not paying the full whack.

Not to mention pricing out the locals. I can't afford to live in the town I grew up in. (Which is fine because there is no cut!)

[Alan de Enfield]

"Her boat mooring will be changed from a residential mooring to a standard mooring"

 

It seems to me that she needs to move her boat to a leisure mooring. That may be a move of only a few feet, but the legal implications are significant.

 

 

I guess this depends if the council have just agreed to have

a ) (say) 20 residential moorings within the marina (which can be any mooring)

b ) or if they have stipulated that moorings (say) A1-A20 are residential and all others are leisure.

 

If it is the former than maybe the marina owner can just confirm that she no longer has a residential mooring, if the latter then she can just move to a leisure mooring.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Is it the mooring itself which attracts Council Tax? Or the boat on the mooring? If the former, then the boatyard would be liable for tax even if empty, so may not be too keen to offer her a leisure mooring. If the latter, the council would lose the tax if she moved. Not that residential moorings stay empty for long in most places, anyway.

[Steilsteven]

As residential moorings are quite rare, the right thing to do would be to move the boat to a leisure mooring so making the residential mooring available for someone who needs it. Problem solved.

 

Keith

[pete.i]

Hi all again.

I'm resurrecting this thread cos I am still unsure about this. she is moored in Selby Boat Center and at present she is paying the boat center for a residential mooring. When the lady moves off her boat into a house the boat center will reclassify her mooring a standard mooring and she will pay the boat center for a standard (non residential) mooring, the same as I am, which is fifty quid a month less. To be honest the prices are really irrelevant. She has been told by the council that she will still have to pay council tax on her boat and she has been told by somebody else that everyone who owns a boat should pay council tax as they boats are classed as second homes. Now I don't pay any council tax on my boat which is non-residential and, presumably, neither does anyone else who has a non-residential boat at the Selby Boat Center. What is worrying her (and me to an extent) is that the council might now come down and chase everyone moored at the Selby Boat Center for council tax. I would have thought,also, that if the way she is thinking AND apparently has been told that this would also affect anyone who owns a non-residential caravan as well and as far as I know noone who has a caravan parked in their drive pays council tax on it as a second home.

Jelunga (I think it was) Oh I am so sorry it was Fuzzy Duck provided a link to an online document that purports to explain it all. I am not complaining and I thank you Fuzzy Duck for providing that link. To be honest,though, it was written in government (National?Local) speak and to be honest I nor the lady in question understood much of it. I have told her to take it to CAB to get it desciphered but she has taken it to a friend of hers (not me) who has told her that basically it means she will have to pay council tax even if she moves off her boat and her boat and mooring becomes non-residential.

I am sorry for the long post but we really are not understanding this at all and to be honest it is slightly worrying.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited March 26, 2012 by pete.i

[rrt2]

sell boat to a good friend for a nominal sum - tell council you have sold boat to a.n.other wait until council says ok you no longer have any council tax liability - buy boat back say nothing to council

[Guest wanted]

I think that this is between the council and the marina owner, As I said before, all she has to do is let the council know that she is moving, give her home address and that's it. Its none of there business to know where she now keeps her boat. A word of caution though, If the marina has planning for x amount of resi moorings then I would ask them to put in writing that the new deal is for leisure mooring and that as such the are respomsible for any LA charges that apply under their agreement. Are there loads of people living there on leisure nmoorings as it might not be wise to stir the pot too much....

[pete.i]

sell boat to a good friend for a nominal sum - tell council you have sold boat to a.n.other wait until council says ok you no longer have any council tax liability - buy boat back say nothing to council

 

Hmm okay that could be a plan. Would that be legal? But that doesn't really answer the basic question that I think I am asking. Do all us people that own boats and possibly caravans for purely leisure purposes have to pay council tax?

 

Pete

[Starcoaster]

No they do not. Only those that keep them on a proper official residential mooring do.

 

Whether that means everyone who keeps a boat on a proper official residential mooring whether they live on it or not have to or not, is something I do not know.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Starcoaster

[pete.i]

I think that this is between the council and the marina owner, As I said before, all she has to do is let the council know that she is moving, give her home address and that's it. Its none of there business to know where she now keeps her boat. A word of caution though, If the marina has planning for x amount of resi moorings then I would ask them to put in writing that the new deal is for leisure mooring and that as such the are respomsible for any LA charges that apply under their agreement. Are there loads of people living there on leisure nmoorings as it might not be wise to stir the pot too much....

 

 

She will get a new agreement in writing but "not wise to stir the pot too much" is exactly what she and I are worried about and I would think that it could have huge consequences for anyone who has a leisure craft or leisure caravan.

 

Pete

[Guest wanted]

Hmm okay that could be a plan. Would that be legal? But that doesn't really answer the basic question that I think I am asking. Do all us people that own boats and possibly caravans for purely leisure purposes have to pay council tax?

 

Pete

As far as I know, no. It might be worth trying to pm forum member smelly,(Dan) he knows his stuff. He's on the move at the mo so might be busy.