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Fishermen blocking the towpath


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I actually turned back from walking into the village this morning when I saw that the towpath was lined with fishermen (despite having checked the Wolverhampton AA match calendar - what more can I do?).

 

Last time this happened it was impossible to progress down the towpath sensible, we either had to keep stopping and waiting for the fishists to move their ridiculous poles, keep saying excuse me, and had to argue with one guy who insisted that we wait until he was ready because he'd paid to fish and we hadn't paid to walk.

 

My immediate reaction was that if he had a problem with what he was getting for his money he should take it up with whoever he was paying it to, but I later thought a better response would have been 'Your payment buys you the right to fish the water, not to block the towpath'. Would that have been technically/legally correct?

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I actually turned back from walking into the village this morning when I saw that the towpath was lined with fishermen (despite having checked the Wolverhampton AA match calendar - what more can I do?).

 

Last time this happened it was impossible to progress down the towpath sensible, we either had to keep stopping and waiting for the fishists to move their ridiculous poles, keep saying excuse me, and had to argue with one guy who insisted that we wait until he was ready because he'd paid to fish and we hadn't paid to walk.

 

My immediate reaction was that if he had a problem with what he was getting for his money he should take it up with whoever he was paying it to, but I later thought a better response would have been 'Your payment buys you the right to fish the water, not to block the towpath'. Would that have been technically/legally correct?

 

get your boat out they will soon move then ! :cheers:

 

14skipper

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As an angler myself I say that you are correct. Not necessarily legally but certainly morally in my view.

 

But then the world is full of ***sers and in my opinion the guy you spoke to is one of those

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I actually turned back from walking into the village this morning when I saw that the towpath was lined with fishermen (despite having checked the Wolverhampton AA match calendar - what more can I do?).

 

Last time this happened it was impossible to progress down the towpath sensible, we either had to keep stopping and waiting for the fishists to move their ridiculous poles, keep saying excuse me, and had to argue with one guy who insisted that we wait until he was ready because he'd paid to fish and we hadn't paid to walk.

 

My immediate reaction was that if he had a problem with what he was getting for his money he should take it up with whoever he was paying it to, but I later thought a better response would have been 'Your payment buys you the right to fish the water, not to block the towpath'. Would that have been technically/legally correct?

 

Clearly the last guy you refer to, as Bazza has said, is a ***ser.

 

I think the legal position is: The towpath is a public right of way - - nothing he can purchase (like a fishing ticket) allows him to block a public right of way.

 

Next time you want to walk the towpath - - get a friend with a Rottweiller to come with you

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I actually turned back from walking into the village this morning when I saw that the towpath was lined with fishermen (despite having checked the Wolverhampton AA match calendar - what more can I do?).

 

Last time this happened it was impossible to progress down the towpath sensible, we either had to keep stopping and waiting for the fishists to move their ridiculous poles, keep saying excuse me, and had to argue with one guy who insisted that we wait until he was ready because he'd paid to fish and we hadn't paid to walk.

 

My immediate reaction was that if he had a problem with what he was getting for his money he should take it up with whoever he was paying it to, but I later thought a better response would have been 'Your payment buys you the right to fish the water, not to block the towpath'. Would that have been technically/legally correct?

 

 

I do agree with what your better response would have been, he wasn't fishing of HIS towpath.

 

Peter.

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My response might have been 'I empty my toilet into this water 100 yards up, I hope your fish is delicious!' :D

 

(Just to be crystal clear, I don't.)

 

Except canal fishing types don't do it for food, rather 'the sport' - they just fling them back in....

 

What is the point of that?

 

 

..

Edited by MJG
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I think the legal position is: The towpath is a public right of way

 

Is that correct? I thought they were not a public right of way, which is why BW can prescribe where cycling is permitted and not for example.

 

 

 

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IME anglers often restrict the width of the towpath to slow joggers and cyclists, in an attempt to prevent damage to their kit, it works and whilst you might get the odd 'grumpy' at least they will be a slow moving 'grumpy'.

There some very rude and stupid anglers just as there are similar types of walkers joggers cyclists and boaters, a common trait it to want everything their own way with no regognition of others needs or expectations, with that attitude confrontation is unfortunatly common.

 

When i was fishing matches on a regular basis i can recall at least £1500 pounds worth of damage to equipment by joggers, cyclists, dogs etc., the worst damage i've caused anybody was to make them wait a few seconds.

 

As a team angler i also walked 100's of matches sometimes you can walk end to end with little obstruction but at other times its stop start city, if you are the first walker of the day then the 'drawbridges' are often closed, but later in the day when the anglers know a few people are about its often much easier to pass.

 

Modern fishing poles are incredibly fragile when stressed in a direction they are not designed to operate in, you just can't swing 12mtrs of pole around quickly without increasing the chances of damage, so anglers tend to take their time 'shipping' their poles. It was very common in matches i fished for other anglers to warn the next guy along if they were inadvertantly blocking other users progress, walkers are very quiet and its very easy not hear of ones approach especially if your wearing a hoodie or hiding behind a brolley.

 

This is not a post in defence of the idiots that inhabit the earth just an insight into why perhaps your walk could be delayed some times by anglers

 

Paul

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I'm truly shocked...no honestly....

I turned back simply because I couldn't face the thought of the confrontation that I would have to have simply to continue my journey. This is why I did my best to check out whether there was a match planned - I don't think so many people could have just been casual fishermen. I suppose I shall just have to be up and out earlier, to be back before about half past eight when they start setting up for a 10 o'clock start.

 

get your boat out they will soon move then ! :cheers:

 

14skipper

When the guy said we didn't pay anything I wasn't going to mention that we were boaters because I thought that wasn't tthe point. However, PB was with me, and he said, 'we pay xxxx pounds' and the fishist replied, ah, but that's for a boat, not for walking. To which of course, I should have replied sweetly 'I can get the boat if you like...'

 

Is that correct? I thought they were not a public right of way, which is why BW can prescribe where cycling is permitted and not for example.

This is what I was not sure about. In some places there are BW notices saying that certain side paths/steps/accesses are not public rights of way, implying that the towpath itself is. Also, doesn't land become a public right of way by default after a certain period unless there are signs saying the contrary? Or does this not apply to government property? Which the towpaths won't be for much longer anyway of course.

 

 

Modern fishing poles are incredibly fragile when stressed in a direction they are not designed to operate in, you just can't swing 12mtrs of pole around quickly without increasing the chances of damage, so anglers tend to take their time 'shipping' their poles. It was very common in matches i fished for other anglers to warn the next guy along if they were inadvertantly blocking other users progress, walkers are very quiet and its very easy not hear of ones approach especially if your wearing a hoodie or hiding behind a brolley.

 

This is the problem and I'm afraid I have little sympathy. When the rules and conventions for match fishing were drawn up, surely equipment was far less obtrusive, not to mention expensive and fragile. If people want to get into an arms race to try to win fishing matches by buying ever bigger and more expensive equipment rather than relying on skill and knowledge, my heart doesn't exactly bleed for them.

Edited by Chertsey
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My understanding is that most tow-paths are not automatically rights of way, and that a walker or cyclists use of the majority them is "by permission".

 

I don't think the fact that people have walked them unchallenged for years changes that.

 

I seem to recall that in the case of the Foot and Mouth outbreaks BW was just able to ban public use of all tow-paths in a much simpler way than had to be done for genuine public rights of way.

 

But I could be wrong, particularly on that last point, and am happy to be corrected if I am.

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The fishists were out in force today on the W&B near Stoke Prior.

One screamed at me to "go down the middle" (I was on the left to keep away from him and his ilk on the right bank).

At least he showed some emotion; the rest of them were a picture of abject misery.

 

For goodness sake, it was a beautiful spring day!

  • Greenie 1
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BW's London 'Towpath Code of Conduct' (aimed at cyclists) says

 

In most cases towpaths are not public rights of way but routes that can

be used by the public with the permission of the landowner. Permission

to use the towpath is given to walkers and cyclists on a long-term

basis by British Waterways but we may have to close the towpath for

maintenance work from time to time.

 

So it looks like Alan is right. It would still be interesting to know though whether angling rights cover the use of the towpath as well as the water - i.e. have they purchased an additional permission (to obstruct the towpath) over and above the universal permission to use it normally.

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This is the problem and I'm afraid I have little sympathy. When the rules and conventions for match fishing were drawn up, surely equipment was far less obtrusive, not to mention expensive and fragile. If people want to get into an arms race to try to win fishing matches by buying ever bigger and more expensive equipment rather than relying on skill and knowledge, my heart doesn't exactly bleed for them.

 

It's just not like that, but i suspect you already know that, i doubt there's an angler fishing that wants your sympathy, just perhaps a little understanding and patience when dealing with joint users of a fantastic facility.

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The fishists were out in force today on the W&B near Stoke Prior.

One screamed at me to "go down the middle" (I was on the left to keep away from him and his ilk on the right bank).

At least he showed some emotion; the rest of them were a picture of abject misery.

 

For goodness sake, it was a beautiful spring day!

It's funny, when they are setting up they are pleasant, chatty, normal people. But as soon as they start fishing they all become as miserable as sin and grumpy with it. Why do they do it if it makes them so unhappy?

 

It's just not like that, but i suspect you already know that, i doubt there's an angler fishing that wants your sympathy, just perhaps a little understanding and patience when dealing with joint users of a fantastic facility.

I certainly didn't mean sympathy as in pity; I mean I find it very hard to see things from their point of view and to understand their position, when they have brought it on themselves by trying to outdo each other in the cost and size of their gear. It would be like me buying a very expensive and fragile racing yacht and then complaining that it was likely to get damaged when I use it on the canal.

 

Is there no demand/scope for competitive fishing using more basic, restricted, equipment, so that success would be seen as the result of the angler's skill rather than the depth of his pocket?

Edited by Chertsey
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It's funny, when they are setting up they are pleasant, chatty, normal people. But as soon as they start fishing they all become as miserable as sin and grumpy with it. Why do they do it if it makes them so unhappy?

Some of the worst abuse we have suffered while boating was from fishermen in matches - all of it on the same day.

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I certainly didn't mean sympathy as in pity; I mean I find it very hard to see things from their point of view and to understand their position, when they have brought it on themselves by trying to outdo each other in the cost and size of their gear. It would be like me buying a very expensive and fragile racing yacht and then complaining that it was likely to get damaged when I use it on the canal.

 

Is there no demand/scope for competitive fishing using more basic, restricted, equipment, so that success would be seen as the result of the angler's skill rather than the depth of his pocket?

 

 

Fishing poles are generally 12.5mtr in length some are longer some are shorter, when you pay more they get lighter and stiffer, its quite reasonable to find a good angler fishing a cheap pole beating a numpty with the best kit available, you can't buy success but that won't stop people trying, on average canals i fished were between 11 & 12.5 mtrs wide, you can buy a 12.5 mtr pole for not alot, certainly less than a tankful of diesel for a narrowboat. Yet you could spend thousands on a pole that is a few grams lighter or a half inch stiffer.

 

Good anglers are good despite what kit they use, poles are unbeatable at canal fishing most of the time, hence most canal anglers fish the pole, its not seen as anything special (certainly not for the last 30 or 40 years) its just another bit of kit.

 

Restricted tackle fishing takes place at times but mostly on commercial fisheries where poles reaching 20 mtrs or more were dominating some matches so a restriction of 13mtrs is sometimes insisted on. There can be float only events or even pole only events but they tend not to be as popular.

 

Funny thing is as a travelling angler that fished open matches only, i liked the restricted method matches as it meant i had to carry less kit and a fair few decisions were already made for me. But i know lots of anglers that hate them.

 

A good pole angler is very skillfull, their ability to make it all look so simple and easy masks their skill.

 

Paul

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Anglers are in the same category as dog owners. Ban the lot of them!

 

 

Head down - incoming

 

 

Right, who else can I upset on a peaceful Sunday night

 

Well there's always the bloody hare-brained cyclists!

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My understanding is that most tow-paths are not automatically rights of way, and that a walker or cyclists use of the majority them is "by permission".

 

I don't think the fact that people have walked them unchallenged for years changes that.

 

I seem to recall that in the case of the Foot and Mouth outbreaks BW was just able to ban public use of all tow-paths in a much simpler way than had to be done for genuine public rights of way.

 

But I could be wrong, particularly on that last point, and am happy to be corrected if I am.

You are correct Alan. By far the majority of Canal Towpaths are not Public Rights of Way, they are actually private Paths, however the public are allowed to use them under Permitted Access arrangements, which can be withdrawn at any time without notice or reason by the owner.

 

The only people who have a legal right to use the towpath are the crews of licenced craft, in connection with the navigation of their boat. Together with walkers and cyclists, the anglers are only there under permitted access arrangements, irrespective of whether they have payed or not,

 

During the Foot and Mouth Epedemic, which you mention, I was Clerk to our Parish Council and had the responsibilty of identifying all Public paths through agricultural land which needed to be closed, something which could only be authorised by the Government. The K&A Canal forms the southern bounday of our Parish, but was not included in the list because BW were able to immedaitely withdraw access to the public without Government authorization.

Edited by David Schweizer
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You are correct Alan. By far the majority of Canal Towpaths are not Public Rights of Way, they are actually private Paths, however the public are allowed to use them under Permitted Access arrangements, which can be withdrawn at any time without notice or reason by the owner.

 

The only people who have a legal right to use the towpath are the crews of licenced craft, in connection with the navigation of their boat. Together with walkers and cyclists, the anglers are only there under permitted access arrangements, irrespective of whether they have payed or not,

 

During the Foot and Mouth Epedemic, which you mention, I was Clerk to our Parish Council and had the responsibilty of identifying all Public paths through agricultural land which needed to be closed, something which could only be authorised by the Government. The K&A Canal forms the southern bounday of our Parish, but was not included in the list because BW were able to immedaitely withdraw access to the public without Government authorization.

 

Soo - - - to follow on from my (Completely incorrect belief that towpaths were public rights of way - - and I recognise that I am now wiser) - I deduce it is true that no angler is able to purchase a permit to prevent other categories of people from access to the towpaths. - So, as Chertsey suspected, the angler with whom she was having a problem was merely being rude and boorish, and spinning a yarn

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