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When does cheeky become insulting?


DCH

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Hi all.

 

I really like this boat http://www.abcboatsales.com/uploads/201046.pdf (even though it's Liverpool boat) but I didn't want to pay £44,950 for it. Would an offer of £39,000 for this boat be a bit cheeky or downright insulting? I mean, would the vendor want to throw me in the canal, or do you think it's a reasonable offer? your thoughts and advice would be appreciated,

Cheers.

Edited by DCH
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Hi all.

 

I really like this boat http://www.abcboatsales.com/uploads/201046.pdf (even though it's Liverpool boat) but I didn't want to pay £44,950 for it. Would an offer of £39,000 for this boat be a bit cheeky or downright insulting? I mean, would the vendor want to throw me in the canal, or do you think it's a reasonable offer? your thoughts and advice would be appreciated,

Cheers.

 

Frankly, it's only 11% off asking price so an offer dangerously close to indicating you will pay full asking!

 

I'd say it all hinges on how you present your offer. A bald "I offer £39k" carries less weight that a long chat with the owner of the brokerage, explaining how this is EXACTLY the boat you want to buy and how you came by the cash, but how there is no way you could run to £44k, so would the vendor possibly be 'flexible' in their price?

 

Find out in advance too how long it's been on the market. A fresh-to-market boat will not be accepting offers but one that has been on for three months and it still not sold is beginning to send the vendor a message, like, too expensive, which is clearly to your advantage.

 

If been on the market for ages and the broker is fishing to extract an offer from you, go in low. Say something like... "well if the seller would accept £33k I'd buy it right NOW, but I don't suppose they would. Or WOULD they? What do you think?" If the guy says no they wouldn't, THEN this leads naturally to "ok, what would they be willing to accept then?" (You still haven't actually made an offer, remember?!) Then if the answer comes back £40k (and I bet it will) you can say well "how about we split the difference? Say £37k? I'd place a deposit right now" and wait for him to get the owner on the phone....

 

You naturally have to be in a position to place a deposit there and then, and follow through promptly. But that's the principle of how to do it.

 

If the vendor says NO, then you say "Ok I fully understand. I'm out looking for a boat to buy right now, so if they change their mind my offer still stands until I find another boat to buy. Let me know if they change their mind and would like to accept, I'll place a deposit immediately....

  • Greenie 1
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it's not worth 45k imo

 

6k hours in five years is a heavily used boat. That's three hours of engine a day, every single day. I concur with mike.

 

I offered 6k less than the asking and I really wish I'd offered less now, considering they accepted almost immediately. And mine had already been reduced at least once.

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When we were boat hunting we had a very limited budget. We put in an offer for Iona at about £11,000 less than the asking price, the broker incredulously asked us if we'd seen the boat. We insisted the offer was passed on to the owner, and we ended up getting her for about £9,000 less than the asking price (I can't remember the precise numbers cos it's late and I'm tired!)

 

The boat had been in brokerage for 6 months and was about to attract mooring fees, so I guess the owners were desperate. Plus it was poorly marketed and presented.

 

Nothing's too cheeky - in fact from what others have said maybe you should go even lower as a starting bid.

 

Best of luck

Edited by Ange
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Frankly, it's only 11% off asking price

 

Actually it is more like 13.2% off the asking price, but I don't think that changes any of the answers here, and is certainly not an offer that would get laughed out of court.

 

You need to ask about those engine hours though, which would be my main concern.

 

Very, very few boaters, whatever their circumstances, cruise anything like the number of miles that would be needed to accumulate that number, so if genuine, far more likely it has been run many of those hours just to charge batteries. (The presence of a 3KW inverter is possible evidence of the need to have done this.) It is generally accepted that running a diesel off-load much of the time is not a "good thing", and likely to knacker it far more quickly than actually putting it under proper load by boating.

 

Look at it this way...... Probably about the maximum time that Beta say an engine should run between an oil and filter change is going to be 250 hours. I make that that this boat should have had (maybe) about 26 oil changes in its short life, (probably about £500 worth of oil at Chandlers prices). I bet they can't produce a service record that shows anything like that amount of TLC, particularly as it says owner serviced in July 2010, implying no oil change has been done in approaching a year and a half, so this winter it still has last winter's oil in.

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Remember, any offer subject to a satisfactory survey.

We looked at having a boat from this builder/fitter at around the time this boat was built. he was quoting £1,000 per foot so the original owner would have paid out £60,000. So 25% depreciation over Five years.

Have you actually seen the boat

If its not the original owner can you find out what price he paid how long he had it why is it for sale.

I think the advice given by Mike the Boilerman is sound and if followied indicates to the broker you are potentially a serious punter. :cheers:

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Excellent reply by Mike and pretty much how we went in with our bid to the broker. He could have been stood behind me listening.

 

We got ours for 12k less than original asking price and 7k less than the asking price at the time. Very much like Ange ours had been marketed poorly, the interior photos on their website were not even of the inside of our boat.

 

Start low. You can always go up.

 

As you seem happy to pay 39k anything less, say 36k, would help to sort the engine should it go boobs skywards.

 

Oh, and be prepared for your arse to drop out when they accept one of your offers. Mine did.

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Hi all.

 

I really like this boat http://www.abcboatsales.com/uploads/201046.pdf (even though it's Liverpool boat) but I didn't want to pay £44,950 for it. Would an offer of £39,000 for this boat be a bit cheeky or downright insulting? I mean, would the vendor want to throw me in the canal, or do you think it's a reasonable offer? your thoughts and advice would be appreciated,

Cheers.

 

Doesny look a bad boat to me. Just remember that all boat prices in the real world have crashed and burned a boat is only worth on the day what the purchaser is willing to pay NOT some price placed on it 2007 fashion. This boat I now own had been up for sale for a year quite simply because brokers etc just keep sticking boats up for sale and hoping for the best. It had been reduced twice and I negotiated another huge lump off when I went to look at it and bought the boat for 24 grand less than it started out at. The plus points for me was that I avidly looked on apollo duck which is were I bought the boat from as I dealt straight John Bull with the owner not some broker middle man who you have no idea what he realy does on your or the vendors behalf. Ive got a great boat for the money and the vendor got preicesly to the penny what the boat was worth on that particular day.

Good luck with your purchase :D

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Doesny look a bad boat to me. Just remember that all boat prices in the real world have crashed and burned a boat is only worth on the day what the purchaser is willing to pay NOT some price placed on it 2007 fashion. This boat I now own had been up for sale for a year quite simply because brokers etc just keep sticking boats up for sale and hoping for the best. It had been reduced twice and I negotiated another huge lump off when I went to look at it and bought the boat for 24 grand less than it started out at. The plus points for me was that I avidly looked on apollo duck which is were I bought the boat from as I dealt straight John Bull with the owner not some broker middle man who you have no idea what he realy does on your or the vendors behalf. Ive got a great boat for the money and the vendor got preicesly to the penny what the boat was worthon that particular day.

Good luck with your purchase :D

 

 

Hello mrsmelly,

 

you managed to get your PIG-UGLY, but very comfortable boat precisely to the penny you were prepared to pay for her, on that particular day.

 

The vendor may have been desperately in the need of the money at the time, and may not have been able to wait any longer for a buyer that was prepared to pay the price the boat was worth to him.

 

Times are hard, and as a buyer (with money), you are in a much stronger position than a seller (who desperately needs money), more or less forced to sell (maybe).

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

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Hi all.

 

I really like this boat http://www.abcboatsales.com/uploads/201046.pdf (even though it's Liverpool boat) but I didn't want to pay £44,950 for it. Would an offer of £39,000 for this boat be a bit cheeky or downright insulting? I mean, would the vendor want to throw me in the canal, or do you think it's a reasonable offer? your thoughts and advice would be appreciated,

Cheers.

 

For what its worth here's our experience from May this year.

 

The asking price of our boat was £52500. We offered £47500. The broker said he would put the offer to the vendor but thought they would want a bit more. He came back the next day saying "£50000 and you've got a deal" which was the price I expected to settle at anyway, so we bought a boat (HOORAY!)

 

Looking back on it I think the boat had been with the broker for a while so perhaps I could have argued for a better deal but haggling over prices has never been one of my stronger points. My old man was a tool buyer for the Ford Motor Company and did that sort of thing for a living, I don't seem to have inherited that gene.

 

On a different point the general advice is don't buy the first boat you look at. Well we did! We had, however, done a lot of internet based homework beforehand.

409 miles and 253 locks later we know we made a good choice.

 

Good luck with the purchase.

 

SAM

Ryde

IOW

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Not cheeky at all - in fact like others have said I would shave a few more grand off what you are proposing.

 

I wish we had been a bit bolder with our offer when we bought our boat TBH.

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it's not worth 45k imo

 

6k hours in five years is a heavily used boat. That's three hours of engine a day, every single day. I concur with mike.

 

I offered 6k less than the asking and I really wish I'd offered less now, considering they accepted almost immediately. And mine had already been reduced at least once.

Good spot on the engine hours - We have used ours hard and its taken 7 years to rack up 3000! Maybe an its an ex syndicate boat? As for time on the market - the background trees show no sign of autumn so it means it was there in August at least.

There is no cheeky offer in my opinion - but whatever you offer will be seen as a book end and the other party will expect a possible settling point half way between, if at all. Its a bit of a game really.

Nice boat at the price you quote but watch out for that engine - in human terms its aged about 60! Nothing wrong with 60 but if you want trouble free service I fancy a teenager! Oops - exactly how deep is the hole I am standing in?

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Not cheeky at all - in fact like others have said I would shave a few more grand off what you are proposing.

Aye, at times like this it helps to be Northern, does it not? Both times that I have bought second-hand boats I ventured "cheeky" offers and got very good deals.

Ahab, what a detective you are, noticing the foliage on the trees and making the deduction which you did!

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In a sellers market(2001) mine had been for sale for 6 months at 75000

went in and offered 60000 subject to survey.

Came back that surveyor wanted 6000 of work done so argued, said I was going to walk away and did. In the end they called me a week or so later , the broker dropped his commission by 2k, the buyer took another 2k hit and I paid 2k more than I wanted and got it for 56000.

So thats the best part of 30% off in a sellers market, in today's market you should be able to better that with ease.

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So this is CWF or New Scotland Yard, already?

But it says "licensed 7/11, valis to 7/14" - would the latter date perhaps refer to the BSC? I don't think you can licence a boat for three years at once.

Edited by Athy
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Hi all.

 

I really like this boat http://www.abcboatsales.com/uploads/201046.pdf (even though it's Liverpool boat) but I didn't want to pay £44,950 for it. Would an offer of £39,000 for this boat be a bit cheeky or downright insulting? I mean, would the vendor want to throw me in the canal, or do you think it's a reasonable offer? your thoughts and advice would be appreciated,

Cheers.

 

As the others say, I think that's a bit too much to offer for a first stab.

 

Maybe work out your maximum, and offer as much under that as the price is over it, then you might end up at what you were willing to pay finally.

I'm very sure that if the seller has taken any advice the boat is priced over what he will accept, it would be if it was mine, as you just know when looking that you can get a bit knocked off. Same as wioth houses and cars.

 

ue

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I know this is a bit :smiley_offtopic: but it is an example of how asking price can be reduced significantly.

 

Back in the early 1970's, I helped to caulk a Nurser butty which had been re-bottomned and motorized by John Wooley at Iver boatyard, but the owner died before the boat had been removed from the yard. I was due to start college in Birmingham as Mature Student in the September of that year, and fancied living on a boat, so I enquired about buying it. I was given a price of £700 by the Excecutor's Solicitor, but considering that too much, I withdrew my interest and later that year moved to Birmingham.

 

Several months after I had started my studies, a letter was forwarde to me from the Solicitor, explaing that they wished to finalise the estate for probate and I was offered the boat for £70. Having just payed my hall fees for the term, I was not in a position to acceopt the offer, but a 90% price reduction on a boat must be something like an all time record.

Edited by David Schweizer
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I know somebody who travelled some distance to buy a boat with 20k cash in his pocket, didn't like the boat he went to see, but came away with another one that was advertised at the "reduced" price of 37.5k ! Just goes to show cash talks and there are desperate sellers out there.

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Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

 

Some very interesting points made and I'm now confident of offering a lot less than I intended, of course only if I still like the boat when I see it for real.

Will make a thorough check on the engine performance and check for proof of servicing - maybe make them higher than average hours a bargaining tool.

Or maybe just walk away if it sounds like a bag of nails.

 

# Oh and yes it has been on sale since July as our friends saw it there when they bought their boat. So even more bargaining power, I think.

 

Thanks again everyone.

Edited by DCH
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Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

 

Some very interesting points made and I'm now confident of offering a lot less than I intended, of course only if I still like the boat when I see it for real.

Will make a thorough check on the engine performance and check for proof of servicing - maybe make them higher than average hours a bargaining tool.

Or maybe just walk away if it sounds like a bag of nails.

 

# Oh and yes it has been on sale since July as our friends saw it there when they bought their boat. So even more bargaining power, I think.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

 

I have an almost identical Liverpool boat also built in 2006. I bought it in 2008 for £45k (asking price was £52k) and it only had 200 hrs on it - hardly used. Some people are very scathing about Liverpool boats but I have been very pleased with mine. As everyone has said, you are in a very strong negotiating position and should get that price down quite a bit.

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As a recent boat purchaser i am suprised that so many here seem happy to talk prices down.I am also a classic car/bike owner and visit forums for these,generally people on these forums would not be so keen to push prices downwards.Wife and i only brought our first boat this year and cant imagine that we would want to sell her,but if we did i would find it cheeky to be offered a price more than 10 percent lower than the asking price.

 

Ian.

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