Is living on Canals as Complicated as it sounds!?

[Smudge38]

Hello All,.

I have previous posted a Message about being Newbiee to all this Canal & barge stuff. I am posting another Message in hope that someone will enlighten me much further.

I have been looking at and thinking about possible Barge living in future..as I want different lifestyle than 4 walls.I have been doing quite a lot research various sources (Internet,Barge Magazine, etc).. & have found out various stuff.

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers! This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!?

I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats, etc..

After doing all this it seems me now that it has changed quite a lot since the Old Working Barges where working on & thus little expense to NOW the Modern Barges that on the Canals. It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

I think way now has gone is a real shame,. because I am a Single person, who cannot finacially afford to get on the Property ladder or near and this is where I think Canal Living/Barge could be real Opition for lot more People in my situation if there was not much Costs or expense to a Alternative lifestyle. The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

 

Thank you for your attention ALL.

 

Newbiee..

Darren

[mayalld]

Hello All,.

I have previous posted a Message about being Newbiee to all this Canal & barge stuff. I am posting another Message in hope that someone will enlighten me much further.

I have been looking at and thinking about possible Barge living in future..as I want different lifestyle than 4 walls.I have been doing quite a lot research various sources (Internet,Barge Magazine, etc).. & have found out various stuff.

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers! This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!?

I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats, etc..

After doing all this it seems me now that it has changed quite a lot since the Old Working Barges where working on & thus little expense to NOW the Modern Barges that on the Canals. It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

I think way now has gone is a real shame,. because I am a Single person, who cannot finacially afford to get on the Property ladder or near and this is where I think Canal Living/Barge could be real Opition for lot more People in my situation if there was not much Costs or expense to a Alternative lifestyle. The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

 

Thank you for your attention ALL.

 

Newbiee..

Darren

 

It is impossible to compare prices now to prices then, because in the old days it was all done with tolls.

 

As to costs, whilst it is certainly expensive, the amount of money collected in licence fees is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the costs of maintaining the canal system.

[deletedaccount]

Think of your licence like council tax. It (in a small way) goes towards maintaining the shared resources you use, namely the waterways, and it also pays for your water, rubbish and sewage disposal.

 

Alternative is not the same as cheap btw.

Edited September 8, 2011 by deletedaccount

[carlt]

Is 2 quid a day (for a 57' boat) that expensive?

[Gibbo]

This thread has already been done.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40920&st=0&p=742694entry742694

 

What's going on?

[cotswoldsman]

This thread has already been done.

 

http://www.canalworl...94

 

What's going on?

 

You know what they say if you do not like the answer the first time then try again!!!!!

[Proper Job]

This thread has already been done.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40920&st=0&p=742694entry742694

 

What's going on?

I'm glad it wasn't just me who seems to think that this is virtually a duplicate of a previous OP

[Gibbo]

The only difference is the first one contained...

 

Anyawy,. if anybody could reply to this Message through my E-Mail I would be very grateful my E-mail address is: leedaz9 at yahoo.co.uk

 

but the second one doesn't.

 

I think cotswoldsman may have a point.

[Gollywobbler]

With respect, everyone, I don't think your criticisms of Darren (the Original Poster on both threads) are fair.

 

I'm in touch with Darren by e-mail, as he requested in his first thread. He is a total newbie to the whole idea of boats and boating. He can't afford to buy a house or a flat and it is the Government who have been pushing him towards the idea of living afloat instead. He has not had this idea all by himself.

 

However, it is very easy for a land-lubber in a Government Office to say, "Ever thought of living on a boat instead?" That Government Official is extremely unlikely to be able to explain how to set about trying to investigate the idea - which is all that Darren is trying to do, so please don't be unnecessarily nasty to him, and please don't be sarcastic at all. That is not necessary and it doesn't show the other posters up in a good light.

 

I think it says a lot more for the intelligence and sensitivity of the rest of us if we try to interpret/anticipate what questions this chap Darren really needs to know the answers to and it is NOT beyond the members of this forum to be able to provide the answers.

 

I don't know any of the details about the inland waterways myself, so I've been asking Darren whether he would be willing to consider living in a coastal Harbour instead, because I DO know about those? At the moment, his reply is that he will consider living anywhere but he wants to know what the costs look like with all of the possible options. That is NOT an unreasonable thing for someone to want to know about, with respect.

 

So! I will re-pose some of the questions that have been emerging from Darren via his e-mails. I would be very grateful for some coherent replies, please:-

 

1. At the moment, he lives near Manchester. Presumably a barge (instead of a narrowboat) would be an OK boat around there? I assume that the Manchester Ship Canal is both still navigable and also wide enough for a barge?

 

2. Are all the other canals and rivers around Manchester also wide enough for barges?

 

3. Darren says that he is not particularly bothered about whether he continues to live near Manchester or not. That widens his options in one sense but narrows them in another. Would it be viable for him to move to somewhere near Liverpool and to live on a boat on the inland waterways in the Liverpool area, please? If so:-

 

3.1 whereabouts would be a good place to consider, please?

 

3.2. what sort of annual costs would one be likely to have to consider, please? Someone has mentioned a total cost of £2 per day. Presumably that is roughly the total cost for keeping a boat on an inland waterway but it probably doesn't include the costs of the boat itself - eg fuel, gas and whatever else a boat might need?

 

4. Sure, the average barge is larger than most other boats. Would the costs of owning a barge be exponentially more expensive than some other types of boats or do the costs tend to work in a linear fashion, please?

 

5. Is there a specific charge for using a stretch of canal or a flight of locks managed by BW, please, or does all this depend on the type of boat/mooring licence that one has?

 

The quick way to discover what this living afloat idea might cost is to get a boat and give it a go. However that it not the most intelligent - or even the most cost-effective - way to set about the whole thing, obviously.

 

So if Darren has not explained himself sufficiently clearly, I will do so instead. The guy is a total novice who is trying to do an informal feasibility study into the whole idea of possibly buying and living on a boat. What can anybody tell us that might help with Darren's "feasibility study," please?

 

Any information at all is probably very useful indeed but sarcasm is not useful at all, so please omit that bit.

 

Many thanks to anyone who can help with this.

 

Darren and Gill.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Gollywobbler

[Nine of Hearts]

From a feasibility study point of view, I think he may be asking the wrong question. It's not so much can I live on a boat, as do I want to. Because it is more complicated than living in a house, and there's a myriad of individual problems to overcome depending on your lifestyle, location, choice of vessel, choice of mooring etc. If you really want to live on a boat, you'll find solutions to these and won't care that some of them are fudges and a bit of a pain. If you're just doing it because it's a feasible alternative, you'll probably go nuts, and lose money on the deal when you sell up.

[LEO]

Is 2 quid a day (for a 57' boat) that expensive?

 

It would appear so to some people.

 

Happy boating.

 

Leo.

[ditchcrawler]

This thread has already been done.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40920&st=0&p=742694entry742694

 

What's going on?

That's what I thought, maybe he thinks different people will read it this week

[Tony Brooks]

With respect, everyone, I don't think your criticisms of Darren (the Original Poster on both threads) are fair.

 

I'm in touch with Darren by e-mail, as he requested in his first thread. He is a total newbie to the whole idea of boats and boating. He can't afford to buy a house or a flat and it is the Government who have been pushing him towards the idea of living afloat instead. He has not had this idea all by himself.

 

However, it is very easy for a land-lubber in a Government Office to say, "Ever thought of living on a boat instead?" That Government Official is extremely unlikely to be able to explain how to set about trying to investigate the idea - which is all that Darren is trying to do, so please don't be unnecessarily nasty to him, and please don't be sarcastic at all. That is not necessary and it doesn't show the other posters up in a good light.

 

I think it says a lot more for the intelligence and sensitivity of the rest of us if we try to interpret/anticipate what questions this chap Darren really needs to know the answers to and it is NOT beyond the members of this forum to be able to provide the answers.

 

I don't know any of the details about the inland waterways myself, so I've been asking Darren whether he would be willing to consider living in a coastal Harbour instead, because I DO know about those? At the moment, his reply is that he will consider living anywhere but he wants to know what the costs look like with all of the possible options. That is NOT an unreasonable thing for someone to want to know about, with respect.

 

So! I will re-pose some of the questions that have been emerging from Darren via his e-mails. I would be very grateful for some coherent replies, please:-

 

1. At the moment, he lives near Manchester. Presumably a barge (instead of a narrowboat) would be an OK boat around there? I assume that the Manchester Ship Canal is both still navigable and also wide enough for a barge?

 

2. Are all the other canals and rivers around Manchester also wide enough for barges?

 

3. Darren says that he is not particularly bothered about whether he continues to live near Manchester or not. That widens his options in one sense but narrows them in another. Would it be viable for him to move to somewhere near Liverpool and to live on a boat on the inland waterways in the Liverpool area, please? If so:-

 

3.1 whereabouts would be a good place to consider, please?

 

3.2. what sort of annual costs would one be likely to have to consider, please? Someone has mentioned a total cost of £2 per day. Presumably that is roughly the total cost for keeping a boat on an inland waterway but it probably doesn't include the costs of the boat itself - eg fuel, gas and whatever else a boat might need?

 

4. Sure, the average barge is larger than most other boats. Would the costs of owning a barge be exponentially more expensive than some other types of boats or do the costs tend to work in a linear fashion, please?

 

5. Is there a specific charge for using a stretch of canal or a flight of locks managed by BW, please, or does all this depend on the type of boat/mooring licence that one has?

 

The quick way to discover what this living afloat idea might cost is to get a boat and give it a go. However that it not the most intelligent - or even the most cost-effective - way to set about the whole thing, obviously.

 

So if Darren has not explained himself sufficiently clearly, I will do so instead. The guy is a total novice who is trying to do an informal feasibility study into the whole idea of possibly buying and living on a boat. What can anybody tell us that might help with Darren's "feasibility study," please?

 

Any information at all is probably very useful indeed but sarcasm is not useful at all, so please omit that bit.

 

Many thanks to anyone who can help with this.

 

Darren and Gill.

 

 

The problem is that he says he has done research and keeps coming back to "the old days".

 

First of all according to you he has needs now - not in the 19th century or early 20th so the "old days" have no relevance.

 

If he had done adequate research he would have found at least two replies on the Canal Boat website where I tabulated the likely cost. Exactly the same information has been given on this forum many times and I am sure that if he had done some real research he would have come across the RBOA who publish such a guide. Has he researched the Waterscape website?

 

Similarly I suspect that a bit of research - like contacting Peel Holdings re fees for the Manchester Ship Canal would show they would not entertain a residential mooring and have strict requirements for inland boats wanting to use that canal.

 

No, it is NOT beyond the members of this forum to provide answers but many are heartily fed up with being asked the same questions over and over again, especially when there is every indication adequate basic research has not been done and question has added irrelevant "bells and whistles". We do not have to answer for British Waterways and say why their fees are as they are today - I would suggest that he tries an FIO request direct to them.

 

If he wants help from an internet forum it would be better if he used it as intended and not tried to keep any information gleaned to himself. And why does he keep on about "Inland Waterways"? His research should have shown that the licensing is carried out by BRITISH WATERWAYS. the ENVIRONMENT AGENCY and a few small bodies like the National Trust, Basingstoke Canal Authority, the Broads Authority, and whoever Peel Holdings use to administer Bridgewater Canal licenses.

 

There is no way he can be given sensible advice until he can give us a better idea about the boat he is thinking of. BW only charge by length where as the EA on the Thames charge by area so a wide beam and narrow beam boat pay very different fees there. In his first post he got replies that indicated most people view a barge and narrowboat as two different things and as far as I can see he has not specified exactly what he meant.

 

He asks why BW river only licenses are cheaper than the canal & river license - has his research not thrown up a few on-line waterways maps? If so he should be able to guess.

 

His first problem if he intend to stay withing the well published BW rules for licensing and work in a given area will be to find with reasonably assured tenure will be to find an authorised residential mooring (on which Council Tax may well be levied). Their availability brings rocking horse excreta to mind. Things may be a little easier if he does not need security of tenure and has another address for correspondence. Its dead easy if he wishes to join the ever increasing band of those who ignore rules they do not like but do not expect many here to answer if that is his intention.

 

He has already been told that living on a boat is not cheaper then living ashore. This may not be the case if he ignores the rules and regulations for the navigation authority he is in and if he goes down that route he could well get his boat confiscated. A recent court case has given greater clarity to exactly what the term Continuously Cruising means to BW.

 

I would suggest the first thing he does is to go back to the "Government Official" and get written details about how much of the license and mooring fees they will pay and how it is administered.

 

The next thing to do is to start asking around about residential moorings.

 

I would say that £2 per day only covers a license on a smaller boat, then comes the mooring, insurance, BSS examinations, blacking, maintenance & battery replacement, the fuels (diesel, solid fuel, gas) and incidental expenditure. He has to be looking at £4000 a year as a minimum and probably well over double that if he can find a proper residential mooring.

 

I am sorry if you do not like my tone but I found his repeated question offencive/annoying and your justification for his conduct and apparent lack of research coupled with your comments on frustrated forum members highly questionable.

[Dekazer]

<SNIP>

Hello All,.

It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

I think way now has gone is a real shame,. because I am a Single person, who cannot finacially afford to get on the Property ladder or near and this is where I think Canal Living/Barge could be real Opition for lot more People in my situation if there was not much Costs or expense to a Alternative lifestyle. The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

Thank you for your attention ALL.

Newbiee..

Darren

 

In my opinion, the answer to most of the OP's questions is 'market capitalism'.

 

Someone owns something, and others want to use it. The owner can make a calculation based on the demand and the price elasticity, and then set their price.

 

It's not in BW's remit to provide low cost accommodation. It's not in boat builders' remit to provide low cost accommodation. It's not in boat sellers/brokers' remit to provide low cost accommotdation. Therefore no one makes any particular effort to make living on a boat 'affordable'

 

Personally, this situation is not to my taste for a number of reasons. I also think it's a shame I could never afford to buy the sort of house my baby boomer parents easily afforded at my age, but ho hum, grrr etc.

 

Having said all that, Darren, boat living can be affordable relative to living on land, but a lot of other factors will come into play. Where we live, in London, the price of living aboard is less than living in a flat IF we wanted to own that flat and ASSUMING we lived in a 'nice' area. You might find that in cheaper areas of the country, boat ownership would be a lot mroe expensive than renting a flat locally.

 

And in answetr to Gollywobbler's addtional questions:

 

3.2. what sort of annual costs would one be likely to have to consider, please? Someone has mentioned a total cost of £2 per day. Presumably that is roughly the total cost for keeping a boat on an inland waterway but it probably doesn't include the costs of the boat itself - eg fuel, gas and whatever else a boat might need? As mentioned above, a number of people have made estimates elsewhere about the costs. My observation is that the costs of living on a boat are not as 'stable' as living ashore - so you need to be good at saving over time for irregular large payments. E.g. you might only need to have the bottom of your boat blacked every few years, but you need to have saved up several hundred pounds to pay for that. If money is tight, you'll need to be very careful at budgeting for these infrequent high costs.

 

5. Is there a specific charge for using a stretch of canal or a flight of locks managed by BW, please, or does all this depend on the type of boat/mooring licence that one has? No, you can pretty much travel the system for free once you have paid your licence. Thelicence fee pays for your right to moor according to local regulations, and use of the facilities along the way, such as locks, water points, elsan (cassette toilet) disposal etc.

 

So if Darren has not explained himself sufficiently clearly, I will do so instead. The guy is a total novice who is trying to do an informal feasibility study into the whole idea of possibly buying and living on a boat. What can anybody tell us that might help with Darren's "feasibility study," please? Check out the RBOA guides at http://www.rboa.org.uk/qa

 

Many thanks to anyone who can help with this.

 

Darren and Gill.

 

 

Good luck whatever you decide,

 

Lucy

 

(Edited to re-format)

Edited September 8, 2011 by Dekazer

[carlt]

Is living on Canals as Complicated as it sounds!?

It all seemed so simple, before this thread started.

[14skipper]

Are you sure your not " Mr Shapps "

14Skipper

[sueb]

The problem is that he says he has done research and keeps coming back to "the old days".

 

First of all according to you he has needs now - not in the 19th century or early 20th so the "old days" have no relevance.

 

If he had done adequate research he would have found at least two replies on the Canal Boat website where I tabulated the likely cost. Exactly the same information has been given on this forum many times and I am sure that if he had done some real research he would have come across the RBOA who publish such a guide. Has he researched the Waterscape website?

 

Similarly I suspect that a bit of research - like contacting Peel Holdings re fees for the Manchester Ship Canal would show they would not entertain a residential mooring and have strict requirements for inland boats wanting to use that canal.

 

No, it is NOT beyond the members of this forum to provide answers but many are heartily fed up with being asked the same questions over and over again, especially when there is every indication adequate basic research has not been done and question has added irrelevant "bells and whistles". We do not have to answer for British Waterways and say why their fees are as they are today - I would suggest that he tries an FIO request direct to them.

 

If he wants help from an internet forum it would be better if he used it as intended and not tried to keep any information gleaned to himself. And why does he keep on about "Inland Waterways"? His research should have shown that the licensing is carried out by BRITISH WATERWAYS. the ENVIRONMENT AGENCY and a few small bodies like the National Trust, Basingstoke Canal Authority, the Broads Authority, and whoever Peel Holdings use to administer Bridgewater Canal licenses.

 

There is no way he can be given sensible advice until he can give us a better idea about the boat he is thinking of. BW only charge by length where as the EA on the Thames charge by area so a wide beam and narrow beam boat pay very different fees there. In his first post he got replies that indicated most people view a barge and narrowboat as two different things and as far as I can see he has not specified exactly what he meant.

 

He asks why BW river only licenses are cheaper than the canal & river license - has his research not thrown up a few on-line waterways maps? If so he should be able to guess.

 

His first problem if he intend to stay withing the well published BW rules for licensing and work in a given area will be to find with reasonably assured tenure will be to find an authorised residential mooring (on which Council Tax may well be levied). Their availability brings rocking horse excreta to mind. Things may be a little easier if he does not need security of tenure and has another address for correspondence. Its dead easy if he wishes to join the ever increasing band of those who ignore rules they do not like but do not expect many here to answer if that is his intention.

 

He has already been told that living on a boat is not cheaper then living ashore. This may not be the case if he ignores the rules and regulations for the navigation authority he is in and if he goes down that route he could well get his boat confiscated. A recent court case has given greater clarity to exactly what the term Continuously Cruising means to BW.

 

I would suggest the first thing he does is to go back to the "Government Official" and get written details about how much of the license and mooring fees they will pay and how it is administered.

 

The next thing to do is to start asking around about residential moorings.

 

I would say that £2 per day only covers a license on a smaller boat, then comes the mooring, insurance, BSS examinations, blacking, maintenance & battery replacement, the fuels (diesel, solid fuel, gas) and incidental expenditure. He has to be looking at £4000 a year as a minimum and probably well over double that if he can find a proper residential mooring.

 

I am sorry if you do not like my tone but I found his repeated question offencive/annoying and your justification for his conduct and apparent lack of research coupled with your comments on frustrated forum members highly questionable.

I think you may be overlooking the fact that some on here are very inteligent and also know the answers. Some on here aren't and the questions and replies reflect this. A little patience wouldn't go amiss.

To go back to the questions I believe a barge will cost the same as a flat or small house. If you can't affprd one you won't afford the other and you will have no security.

The only way to live cheaply on the canals is to buy a cheap small fibreglass cruiser. From £5000ish and you may not be happy living in it.

Good luck

Sue

[Midnight Rider]

Could I just ask Darren (or through Gill) ----

 

Are you employed ( or job seeking) because this will affect where you want to live?

 

Have you got the funds to buy a boat?

 

If so,have you got the funds to licence, insure, make a first payment on a mooring & have some left for any maintenance or improvements?

 

If you could reply to the above points, it may help others to help you.

 

Regards.

[kevinl]

1. At the moment, he lives near Manchester. Presumably a barge (instead of a narrowboat) would be an OK boat around there? I assume that the Manchester Ship Canal is both still navigable and also wide enough for a barge?

 

The Manchester Canal is very much open but you can't moor on it and passage along it has to be booked. Certainly yoiu can't liveaboard on there. There are plans in the pipeline to build a port in Salford and bring it back into full use.

 

2. Are all the other canals and rivers around Manchester also wide enough for barges?

Yes, Britain's first canal the Bridgewater right in the city centre, can't get much closer than that.

 

3. Darren says that he is not particularly bothered about whether he continues to live near Manchester or not. That widens his options in one sense but narrows them in another. Would it be viable for him to move to somewhere near Liverpool and to live on a boat on the inland waterways in the Liverpool area, please? If so:-

 

The leeds-liverpool canal springs to mind.

 

3.1 whereabouts would be a good place to consider, please?

 

Although Birmingham famously has more canals than Venice Manchester, Cheshire and Lancashire have more than their fair share.

 

3.2. what sort of annual costs would one be likely to have to consider, please? Someone has mentioned a total cost of £2 per day. Presumably that is roughly the total cost for keeping a boat on an inland waterway but it probably doesn't include the costs of the boat itself - eg fuel, gas and whatever else a boat might need?

 

I pay £65.00 a month for the marina fees (non residential) for a 30 foot boat and £300.00 for a licence (might sound cheap to a BW licence payers but it's the Bridgewater not BW so not as much as you guys). Fuel and gas depends on how you use them how far you cruise (if at all) each day and how much cooking you do.

 

4. Sure, the average barge is larger than most other boats. Would the costs of owning a barge be exponentially more expensive than some other types of boats or do the costs tend to work in a linear fashion, please?

 

Bigger it is the more it costs, most things work on the size of the boat alone, so it's a trade off money for room. I think I could live for extended periods on a 30-40 foot boat, alone that is bit cosy for 2.

 

5. Is there a specific charge for using a stretch of canal or a flight of locks managed by BW, please, or does all this depend on the type of boat/mooring licence that one has?

 

Only the odd bits of river and canal aren't BW but if you have a Bridgewater licence first week on BW is free after that about £25.00 per week (for me) dependent on boat size on top of my £300.00 Bridgewater licence.

 

Hope this helps

 

K

[Tam & Di]

Hello All,.

I have previous posted a Message about being Newbiee to all this Canal & barge stuff. I am posting another Message in hope that someone will enlighten me much further.

I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats, etc..

After doing all this it seems me now that it has changed quite a lot since the Old Working Barges where working on & thus little expense to NOW the Modern Barges that on the Canals. It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

Newbiee..

Darren

 

Not such a "newbie" now, as you've been a member here for 15 months, and I gather you have already posed much the same question. It has been pointed out that "the old days" is really red herring, and myalld noted that the payment system is now different. To give a better understanding so you don't feel so hard done by, in the old days to which you refer we used to carry freight on the canals, and paid tolls to do so - a cost per ton for each mile travelled. The amount of traffic was such that most canal companies (canals were privately owned till the mid C20) had sufficient income to keep their waterways in navigable condition. Legislation on matters loosely referred to as Health & Safety has meant the costs of e.g. dredging have escalated out of control, and although there are now substantial numbers of pleasurecraft on the system, trying to get enough money from the owners to carry out all the essential maintenance is no longer a practical option. Canals are actually a relatively cheap leisure resource - leisure in the sense of an occupation other than your work and which you do for choice. They were never designed as somewhere for people to live, and although progressively more people have found enjoyment living on board they should not expect their lifestyle choice to be heavily subsidised by others, either in the sense of not paying the market rate or in the sense that their use is detrimental to the generally accepted basic use of canals as a cruising waterway.

 

Your research does not appear to be well directed. In many ways the cost is the least significant issue - are you capable of keeping your electrics, water and sewage systems running, and all the hundred and one other things that go with life on a boat? Go out onto the canals and speak to people, see for yourself at first hand. You've already been given all the basic information. Find out if it is really something you would like to do and either do it or move on.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Tam & Di

[nina]

Hello All,.

I have previous posted a Message about being Newbiee to all this Canal & barge stuff. I am posting another Message in hope that someone will enlighten me much further.

I have been looking at and thinking about possible Barge living in future..as I want different lifestyle than 4 walls.I have been doing quite a lot research various sources (Internet,Barge Magazine, etc).. & have found out various stuff.

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers! This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!?

I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats, etc..

After doing all this it seems me now that it has changed quite a lot since the Old Working Barges where working on & thus little expense to NOW the Modern Barges that on the Canals. It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

I think way now has gone is a real shame,. because I am a Single person, who cannot finacially afford to get on the Property ladder or near and this is where I think Canal Living/Barge could be real Opition for lot more People in my situation if there was not much Costs or expense to a Alternative lifestyle. The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

 

Thank you for your attention ALL.

 

Newbiee..

Darren

 

 

Hi Darren & Gill

 

Great idea to research all the in's and out's of living on a boat before you commit. That's always the best way. We've stayed midweek on our boat for over a year because of our work commitments. It depends on all your other commitments. If you're not careful, boat costs versus other costs can work out to be a false economy. With house costs, you normally work out figures for over 6 or 12 months. Obviously if you're renting, you don't need to include the costs of any maintenance.

 

With a boat, it's more realistic to work out costs over a 24 month period because in that time you will need to include costs such as blacking, winterizing, plus additional service costs and labour if anything needs fixing. I also found that we spent more on food. Because storage on the boat is reduced, we shopped every day at the local Spar. Food costs are much cheaper if you plan meals for the week and can do one weekly shop.

We also spent more on going out especially in Winter when living on a boat can be a bit spirit dampening. A trip to the local just for one meant we would bump into friends and stay much longer. My husband has just reminded me how much we spent going out;-)I'm a gregarious person so life on a boat can be a little isolating moreso in Winter if it's knee deep in snow and ice.

 

In this respect, unless you are going to be very disciplined, money can soon disappear so what you think you're saving, you could be spending without realising it.

 

You sound quite young so you need to consider whether living on a boat will suit your lifestyle. Depends where you will be moored but if it's in a secluded marina that's miles from anywhere, will this suit you as young people? If you live in a marina in the hub of society where there's lots going on, then obviously it might be different.

Residential fees are obviously higher when tallying up what costs might be involved.

 

Here's a link that might help you with a budget. Good luck. Don't rush into anything :-) Are you thinking of living on a boat because you think bricks and mortar are too expensive?

 

http://www.boatsales-uk.com/running_costs.htm

[Higgs]

Smudge38. Have you any more questions? Maybe you would like to comment on the answers.

[Gollywobbler]

From a feasibility study point of view, I think he may be asking the wrong question. It's not so much can I live on a boat, as do I want to. Because it is more complicated than living in a house, and there's a myriad of individual problems to overcome depending on your lifestyle, location, choice of vessel, choice of mooring etc. If you really want to live on a boat, you'll find solutions to these and won't care that some of them are fudges and a bit of a pain. If you're just doing it because it's a feasible alternative, you'll probably go nuts, and lose money on the deal when you sell up.

 

Hi Nine of Hearts

 

Thanks very much for your reply.

 

I do agree with what you say. For me personally, there was only one "choice" involved. I chose my late husband Jim. Choosing Jim involved choosing his liveaboard lifestyle as well but he was the one with the real knowledge and skill about boats, not me. Also, because he knew so much about how to do it, he gave me a very soft landing with it all.

 

So all that I had to do was to adapt my own lifestyle to suit Jim's, in effect. I think it is a much harder decision to make when one's own reasons for possibly becoming a liveaboard are essentially negative and there is no compunction to do it at all.

 

Darren has asked me whether I would do it again? The answer is, "Not without Jim," and since Jim is dead, all other considerations are academic from my point of view. I do not have the right skill-set to be able to live on a boat by myself, so I live ashore now, instead.

 

However I do think you are absolutely right. If you want to do something enough then you will find ways to overcome all the practical problems - I certainly did. That said, if you are not sure then don't even try because I do think that being a liveaboard requires a LOT of conviction about something - even if it is about the skipper/owner more than his boat!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited September 8, 2011 by Gollywobbler

[Gollywobbler]

That's what I thought, maybe he thinks different people will read it this week

 

Stop it, please.

 

Darren has had several different e-mail replies, including from me.

 

I think what is happening is that he is trying to cope with a "jumble of different information" and that the jumble is probably confusing him more than helping him at the moment.

 

I take grave exception to your simplistic remark that you imagine that Darren might think different people might answer him and blah blah.

 

Have you had the humility to consider that the guy might be a bit tongue-tied and unsure about how to pose his questions?

 

If you have not had the humility to consider that possibility then why not, please? Does one need a degree in Communication Skills in order to be a member of this forum? It did not say so when I joined the thing so stop it, please.

 

Gill

[carlt]

Does one need a degree in Communication Skills in order to be a member of this forum?

No but a GCSE wouldn't go amiss, to recognise a bit of light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek humour.