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Is living on Canals as Complicated as it sounds!?


Smudge38

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:smiley_offtopic:

In the good old days of sail. The gollywobbler was one of the last sails to set flying, but of the first sails to get taken down!

 

Quite understandable really!!! :wacko:

 

Nipper

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Hi Darren & Gill

 

Great idea to research all the in's and out's of living on a boat before you commit. That's always the best way. We've stayed midweek on our boat for over a year because of our work commitments. It depends on all your other commitments. If you're not careful, boat costs versus other costs can work out to be a false economy. With house costs, you normally work out figures for over 6 or 12 months. Obviously if you're renting, you don't need to include the costs of any maintenance.

 

With a boat, it's more realistic to work out costs over a 24 month period because in that time you will need to include costs such as blacking, winterizing, plus additional service costs and labour if anything needs fixing. I also found that we spent more on food. Because storage on the boat is reduced, we shopped every day at the local Spar. Food costs are much cheaper if you plan meals for the week and can do one weekly shop.

We also spent more on going out especially in Winter when living on a boat can be a bit spirit dampening. A trip to the local just for one meant we would bump into friends and stay much longer. My husband has just reminded me how much we spent going out;-)I'm a gregarious person so life on a boat can be a little isolating moreso in Winter if it's knee deep in snow and ice.

 

In this respect, unless you are going to be very disciplined, money can soon disappear so what you think you're saving, you could be spending without realising it.

 

You sound quite young so you need to consider whether living on a boat will suit your lifestyle. Depends where you will be moored but if it's in a secluded marina that's miles from anywhere, will this suit you as young people? If you live in a marina in the hub of society where there's lots going on, then obviously it might be different.

Residential fees are obviously higher when tallying up what costs might be involved.

 

Here's a link that might help you with a budget. Good luck. Don't rush into anything :-) Are you thinking of living on a boat because you think bricks and mortar are too expensive?

 

http://www.boatsales-uk.com/running_costs.htm

 

 

Hi Nina

 

Thanks very much indeed for your most helpful post.

 

I'm not the one who is thinking about living on a boat. I've been there, done that and have no need or wish to do it again. I'm merely defending Darren.

 

I think you are absolutely right about the budgeting - I hadn't really thought about looking after the boat's structure until you said it, so thanks very much for that tip.

 

I also found that we spent more on food. Because storage on the boat is reduced, we shopped every day at the local Spar. Food costs are much cheaper if you plan meals for the week and can do one weekly shop.

Yes, I agree. When I lived on a boat, we didn't have to worry much about food-storage because the boat was huge and we had a freezer etc. However, one Christmas, I came close to strangling my darling hubby! He waited till the turkey was in the oven and we were expecting dinner-guests about 90 minutes later. Jim then announced that he needed to shut the generator down and to go ashore to get more fuel for the thing. The boat was all-electric because he didn't trust gas on a boat. We had our own 500 gall fuel tank on some land that we owned ashore but it was still a long-winded hassle to get ashore from a pile mooring in the middle of the Hamble River, drive to the land, get the fuel and then do the whole thing in reverse, so I nearly throttled him because b*ggering around to get fuel and switching the genny off in the meantime was hardly going to help my turkey to cook! Admittedly, that was the only time when he forgot to get enough fuel in advance but what a time to choose!

 

Even now, though, living ashore as I do now, you are absolutely right that it is very expensive to buy food from anything except a large supermarket and it is very expensive to buy food if the storage at home will be limited, necessitating frequent trips to the shop.

 

We also spent more on going out especially in Winter when living on a boat can be a bit spirit dampening. A trip to the local just for one meant we would bump into friends and stay much longer.

Again, I agree with you most heartily and it is very easy to overlook this sort of cost when one is trying to work it out on a spreadsheet. Again, I had forgotten about that so thanks very much for reminding me.

 

Are you thinking of living on a boat because you think bricks and mortar are too expensive?

I'm not but Darren is.

 

I don't know whether Darren is dependent on the dole - that is none of my business and he hasn't told me.

 

However if the dole is involved then I would advise Darren to be ultra-cautious. Housing Benefit might pay the rent for the mooring but it will NOT pay for anything else. Jim & I happened to be fairly wealthy, so we weren't trying to live on £67.50 a week, which is the amount for Job Seekers Allowance. I don't think one can afford to live on a boat if that is the weekly income, frankly.

 

I think that Darren probably smells a financial rat and if so, I'd say that he is absolutely correct.

 

Thank you again for your help - I believe that you have brought the living costs into very sharp focus and that cannot hurt.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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:smiley_offtopic:

In the good old days of sail. The gollywobbler was one of the last sails to set flying, but of the first sails to get taken down!

 

Quite understandable really!!! :wacko:

 

Nipper

 

 

Yep. A gollywobbler is a mizzen staysail on a schooner and they are extremely difficult, shivery sails to fly. Flying a gollywobbler successfully requires a serious amount of skill.

 

So what did you say your own problem is?

 

Also, does your contribution actually assist the Original Poster on this thread? If so, how, please?

Edited by Gollywobbler
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I don't want to disparage anybody asking questions, there is no such thing as a stupid questin (so said someone recently answering a numpty question of mine offline) but when I decided I needed a boat I took it upon myself to visit brokers around the country, speak to as many people as I could find and at some point made what is ultimately a leap of faith by buying a boat.

 

The collective knowledge level on this forum can seen intimidating to an outsider (trust me) but I don' t see how the OP can respect a positive response by posting a vaguely worded post for the second time.As much as I respect the forum members here if I was seriously considering a life changing decision I would expect to rely on my own researches, any extra information being a bonus.

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So what did you say your own problem is?

 

Also, does your contribution actually assist the Original Poster on this thread? If so, how, please?

 

I think the OP's questions have all been answered. He has also been given a lot of supplementary information that people thought he might find useful.

 

His questions were:

 

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers!

That is not actually a question. However to answer the one that is implicit, many rivers are governed by different legislation to canals, and it seems reasonable that a licence that restricts a user to a certain river should be cheaper than one permitting use of the whole system.

 

This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!? I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats,........ My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

Not relevant to someone who is looking at the possibility of living on a boat today, but I did answer this in some detail in an earlier posting.

 

The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

A very difficult question to answer succinctly, and I doubt that the OP would really be interested in the answer, involving politics, economics, philosophy etc as it does. The answer would anyway not help him decide if he could/should live on a boat, and is almost rhetorical.

 

You introduced the idea that people should e-mail him privately, but he does not ask for that. Indeed, why should they? It is one thing to respond on an open forum, yet another to give private advice. You appear to have hijacked the thread for whatever reason it is you have. If the OP wants more information it is up to him to come back in (or perhaps to explain why he has given you 'power of attorney' to speak for him). By the way, the other bit of advice I gave earlier still stands - rather than looking at books and the internet he should go out to a canal/river/harbour/lake (i.e. an inland waterway!) and speak to people on boats; look at what a boat actually is and how people live on them.

Edited by Tam & Di
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I think the OP's questions have all been answered. He has also been given a lot of supplementary information that people thought he might find useful.

 

His questions were:

 

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers!

That is not actually a question. However to answer the one that is implicit, many rivers are governed by different legislation to canals, and it seems reasonable that a licence that restricts a user to a certain river should be cheaper than one permitting use of the whole system.

 

This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!? I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats,........ My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

Not relevant to someone who is looking at the possibility of living on a boat today, but I did answer this in some detail in an earlier posting.

 

The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

A very difficult question to answer succinctly, and I doubt that the OP would really be interested in the answer, involving politics, economics, philosophy etc as it does. The answer would anyway not help him decide if he could/should live on a boat, and is almost rhetorical.

 

You introduced the idea that people should e-mail him privately, but he does not ask for that. Indeed, why should they? It is one thing to respond on an open forum, yet another to give private advice. You appear to have hijacked the thread for whatever reason it is you have. If the OP wants more information it is up to him to come back in (or perhaps to explain why he has given you 'power of attorney' to speak for him). By the way, the other bit of advice I gave earlier still stands - rather than looking at books and the internet he should go out to a canal/river/harbour/lake (i.e. an inland waterway!) and speak to people on boats; look at what a boat actually is and how people live on them.

 

Hi Tom

 

On the thread that Darren started earlier this week, he gave his e-mail address in his first post and asked people to e-mail him instead of replying on the forum.

 

My guess is that he probably can't access a computer easily but he's probably got something like a Blackberry that would let him see his e-mails easily.

 

He clearly isn't a journalist, as some snide twit of a forum member suggested on Darren's first thread this week - there is no such thing as a bright future for a journo who is clearly not particularly articulate. Apparently Darren has had several e-mails from CWDF members, though, so at least he knows that not all of the members are bar stewards.

 

Quite a lot of people who work in the Skilled Trades (identified in the Skilled Occupations Classification - which is the Official Document and is available on the Internet) are actually dyslexic. Words fox them but they are very skilled with their hands - Darren could easily be one such, in which case deriding him for his less-than-brilliant English would be just plain rude.

 

However to answer the one that is implicit, many rivers are governed by different legislation to canals, and it seems reasonable that a licence that restricts a user to a certain river should be cheaper than one permitting use of the whole system.

This is a very sensible, helpful answer so thanks very much for this.

 

By the way, the other bit of advice I gave earlier still stands - rather than looking at books and the internet he should go out to a canal/river/harbour/lake (i.e. an inland waterway!) and speak to people on boats; look at what a boat actually is and how people live on them.

Several people have suggested this and of course it is an excellent idea in principle. Ideally, somebody searching for a possible boat would also visit lots of boatyards and brokers. However, with the Economic Squeeze on and the price of petrol or road diesel both having shot through the roof, it is understandable that people don't want to travel around more than they absolutely have to.

 

I know an excellent, sheltered place in which to moor up a boat, in which place the mooring fees are also extremely cheap. So I've told Darren about that and sent him the links in an e-mail. It wouldn't matter what sort of boat somebody had there because the moorings are extremely well-sheltered and a barge would be fine if Darren wants a barge. The moorings area is easily big enough to accommodate a barge. The only problem is that the place is nowhere near Manchester, so one would have to think carefully about how to get something like a barge to the moorings. I don't know whether a barge could be put on a low-loader? It probably depends on the beam of the boat, I would imagine, but it might also depend on the weight of the barge?

 

However I've put Darren in touch with a specialist boat-surveyor who is an old friend of mine. The first thing Darren needs advice about is what sort of things to look out for if he goes to view barges. A freebie chat with the surveyor would probably also reveal whether barges can travel by road - I've heard that some of the old Dutch barges are about 100 tons.

 

Also, I'm mot sure about the viability of the place I have described when compared to Liverpool. I think the economy of Liverpool Docks and the surrounding area is going to take off like a rocket within the next couple of years. Liverpool have asked the Government for permission to turn Liverpool into a "turnaround" port for cruise ships. What this means is that the passengers would be able to start and finish their cruises in Liverpool.

 

I live just outside Southampton, which is one of the main turnaround ports in the UK for cruise ships. The local movers & shakers down here are incensed by the notion that Liverpool might nick some of the huge profits that the cruise-ship industry brings to Southampton. However, Carnival's UK base is also in Southampton. Carnival have expressed public support for the idea of Liverpool becoming a turnaround port. They think the idea would be very attractive for a good number of Carnival's passengers.

 

So my instinct is that the Transport Minister will allow Liverpool to become a turnaround port, in which case it would generate massive amounts of new employment in and around Liverpool. If I'm right about this then Liverpool (or a canal nearby) would be an excellent place for somebody living on a barge to move to, it seems to me. Darren is of working age though he has not told me his exact age. The employment prospects might well become excellent in Liverpool for a man of working age, I strongly suspect.

 

Additionally, there is a windfarm not far from the Queens Channel, which is the main ship-channel into the River Mersey. That might get larger and if so, it is also likely to generate new employment in the area. It is a naffing sight quicker and cheaper to investigate that on the internet than to go and stare at the relevant wind turbines, obviously.

 

So there are a whole load of factors to be considered by Darren apart from just choosing a suitable boat and finding somehere to moor it, imho.

 

You and others might think that I have "hi-jacked" Darren's new thread but it seems to me that I've put a bloody sight more effort into considering what might be useful for him - and offering him constructive suggestions - than a lot of the naysayers on his threads have done.

 

It irritates me that people who don't want to help apparently just want to carp and to deride other people instead. If they don't want to offer concrete help in any way that they can, why don't they just shut up instead?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited by Gollywobbler
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On the thread that Darren started earlier this week, he gave his e-mail address in his first post and asked people to e-mail him instead of replying on the forum.

 

My guess is that he probably can't access a computer easily but he's probably got something like a Blackberry that would let him see his e-mails easily.

 

 

It irritates me that people who don't want to help apparently just want to carp and to deride other people instead. If they don't want to offer concete help in any way that they can, why don't they just shut up instead?

 

This is a public forum...Why should anyone shut up, just because you say so?

 

Because the OP prefers email responses, rather than posts on the forum (not actually what a discussion forum is about, but we'll let that one go) why should he expect any sensible advice to be posted here?

 

It would seem to me that, by specifying a preference for email responses, he has left this space open for a bit of fun, which other forum members have taken advantage of.

 

The only one spoiling it would seem to be you (even the OP hasn't objected) so why don't you put your skills to more productive things and go and frown at some onions, so they'll be ready in time for Xmas?

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It may interest people to know that as a result of the economic climate and current lack of job opportunities, suicide rates among young men especially have risen. Depression and mental illness among young people has also risen.

Many young people have little in the way of family support and places like drop in centres and charities that offer a lifeline to young people are having their budgets cut.

 

Just a thought to bear in mind seeing as no one knows how old or young, or what frame of mind a poster may be in at the time of asking a question even if the question seems vague or unspecific.That's the problem with forums and emails. It's so easy to misinterpret the written word.

 

To Darren or anyone trying to make ends meet, unless you own a boat, it probably isn't the cheap option that it's made to sound. I own my boat outright so I have no mortgage but I know that marine mortgages are offered at a much higher percentage rate. As I said earlier, there are other costs that you don't think of at the time. It's only after you live the boat lifestyle that you realise 6 months down the track how much it's really costing you in other things because the boat is not a convenient lifestyle especially if you have to travel to work. If you can live like a monk on a very basic level, then it can be cheaper.

 

If you are prone to low periods or you feel depressed, life on a boat can be very isolated. It's fine if you like the hermit lifestyle but probably will have it's drawbacks if you like to be around people.

 

If you are struggling for money and trying to find a cheaper place to live, you probably won't get much support on this kind of forum because of all the politics. Most boat loving liveaboards won't want crowds of people living in their back yard. I must be honest, I wouldn't either but I have the luxury of an apartment as well as my boat.

 

Looking beyond this though, it sounds like Darren is doing his best to try and secure a cheaper way to live. A boat is not going to be cheaper if you have to borrow to buy it.

What I would advise Darren or any other person currently struggling, is to look at the possibility of house sharing or buy half/rent half. There are a lot of hard up property developers now willing to enter into selling a portion of their properties relevant to what the bank will lend you, then you can rent the other half directly from them until such time that you can buy it outright.

 

Read all the small print first of course and seek proper advice. Perhaps researching this market first might be your best option.

 

Of course if you are looking to live on a boat for other reasons, escape life, go into retreat mode, etc, it won't necessarily be cheaper. A boat is a lot like a car in some ways, because it's mechanical, unexpected costs can crop up especially in winter.

 

Do look at all options before you dive in the deep end. This goes for anyone reading this thread.

 

I hope this helps.

  • Greenie 2
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Cut to the chase and paraphrase the questions I think.

"I want a cheap home and knowing nothing at all about boats I think I might like to live on one. I have no interest in boats or waterways but I'm skint. My cursory look suggests there is a cost implication to this decision. How do I get things at 19th century prices?"

There you go, now an answer.

Don't do it, forget it, you will hate it and you can't afford it anyway.

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Hi Tom

 

My guess is that he probably can't access a computer easily but he's probably got something like a Blackberry that would let him see his e-mails easily.

 

Quite a lot of people who work in the Skilled Trades (identified in the Skilled Occupations Classification - which is the Official Document and is available on the Internet) are actually dyslexic. Words fox them but they are very skilled with their hands - Darren could easily be one such, in which case deriding him for his less-than-brilliant English would be just plain rude.

 

 

....... Ideally, somebody searching for a possible boat would also visit lots of boatyards and brokers.

 

I know an excellent, sheltered place in which to moor up a boat, in which place the mooring fees are also extremely cheap.

 

I've put Darren in touch with a specialist boat-surveyor who is an old friend of mine. The first thing Darren needs advice about is what sort of things to look out for if he goes to view barges. A freebie chat with the surveyor would probably also reveal whether barges can travel by road - I've heard that some of the old Dutch barges are about 100 tons.

 

Also, I'm mot sure about the viability of the place I have described when compared to Liverpool. ..

 

So my instinct is that the Transport Minister will allow Liverpool to become a turnaround port, in which case it would generate massive amounts of new employment in and around Liverpool. If I'm right about this then Liverpool (or a canal nearby) would be an excellent place for somebody living on a barge to move to, it seems to me. Darren is of working age though he has not told me his exact age. The employment prospects might well become excellent in Liverpool for a man of working age, I strongly suspect.

 

There is a hell of a lot of supposition here - Nina also posits that he could be suicidal! It's good that you know so many people who are able to help Darren. On here we don't actually know what he wants - does he actually want a barge? Does he really mean a narrowboat? Does he actually even care about what sort of boat it is as long as it cheap enough for him to buy? Does he agree that the Transport Minister will allow Liverpool to become a turnaround port?

 

If he decides to buy a 100 ton Dutch barge I can advise him on movement by road as we have done it many times with craft we have owned, but it seems a bit pointless from what little we actually know of him or his plans/hopes/wishes/idle curiosity.

 

By the way, the name is Tam-with-an-A!

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There is a hell of a lot of supposition here - Nina also posits that he could be suicidal! It's good that you know so many people who are able to help Darren. On here we don't actually know what he wants - does he actually want a barge? Does he really mean a narrowboat? Does he actually even care about what sort of boat it is as long as it cheap enough for him to buy? Does he agree that the Transport Minister will allow Liverpool to become a turnaround port?

 

If he decides to buy a 100 ton Dutch barge I can advise him on movement by road as we have done it many times with craft we have owned, but it seems a bit pointless from what little we actually know of him or his plans/hopes/wishes/idle curiosity.

 

By the way, the name is Tam-with-an-A!

 

 

Nina also posits that he could be suicidal!

 

On the contrary, I was not suggesting Darren was suicidal. I was merely pointing out due to the desperation that some people are finding themselves in because of the recession and economic climate, they may be well be dealing with many issues on an emotional level which finding themselves homeless or just trying to afford a home may result in some people feeling depressed.

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Nina also posits that he could be suicidal!

 

On the contrary, I was not suggesting Darren was suicidal. I was merely pointing out due to the desperation that some people are finding themselves in because of the recession and economic climate, they may be well be dealing with many issues on an emotional level which finding themselves homeless or just trying to afford a home may result in some people feeling depressed.

 

Yep - and got a greenie for it. Wonder who that was from? I've just looked at the other (concurrent) thread and looky there - Darren can send his own mails after all. He's just left this one as an ego trip for his fairy godmother. Incidently I also looked at his profile and he purports to be 38 (39 in 3 weeks) so not as young as you suggest in mail #21, nor as tongue tied as suggested in #24.

 

I was happy enough to contribute to a thread seemingly asking for advice, but this is something else altogether.

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Yep - and got a greenie for it. Wonder who that was from? I've just looked at the other (concurrent) thread and looky there - Darren can send his own mails after all. He's just left this one as an ego trip for his fairy godmother. Incidently I also looked at his profile and he purports to be 38 (39 in 3 weeks) so not as young as you suggest in mail #21, nor as tongue tied as suggested in #24.

 

I was happy enough to contribute to a thread seemingly asking for advice, but this is something else altogether.

 

Does it matter? Might you not be contributing to all those other anonymous people who read the threads genuinely looking for advice if you offer your help regardless?

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Cut to the chase and paraphrase the questions I think.

"I want a cheap home and knowing nothing at all about boats I think I might like to live on one. I have no interest in boats or waterways but I'm skint. My cursory look suggests there is a cost implication to this decision. How do I get things at 19th century prices?"

There you go, now an answer.

Don't do it, forget it, you will hate it and you can't afford it anyway.

 

Hi Sir Nibble

 

Were you born knowing absolutely everything about boats? If not, how did you learn?

 

Also, you've made rather a lot of assumptions about Darren's lifestyle, haven't you?

 

Gill

Edited by Gollywobbler
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