Tug Decks

[Chertsey]

I have heard a different explanation from Alan's for the long front decks of narrow boat tugs - which even purpose built ones, mainly on the BCN, also had. A tug needs a big powerful engine, and the long foredeck is necessary to counterbalance its weight.

 

I agree that no modern tug is as beautiful as nearly any old boat (actually, I will make an exception for Gazelle) but if I were ever again in the market for a new boat I wouldn't hesitate to go for tug style again. It's no more or less authentic or posey than any other style of modern boat, and I like the features it offers.

[Speedwheel]

My take is that they needed to be as long as was necessary to not be "all swim". If you go much below 40 foot, and have good swims, you'll have very little "straight bit in the middle", so the tug would be prone to roll.

 

Also if it is to short they have very little 'bite' on the water making them difficult to steer and control the boats they are towing.

 

As for the long deck, I was told they used to lay the elums from the day boats on them when they were pulling in trains.

[Ally]

Also if it is to short they have very little 'bite' on the water making them difficult to steer and control the boats they are towing.

 

As for the long deck, I was told they used to lay the elums from the day boats on them when they were pulling in trains.

Go on then.....'elums'???? all I can find is a printing design thingy and a place in washington..........

[soldthehouse]

Go on then.....'elums'???? all I can find is a printing design thingy and a place in washington..........

Rudder ish

[jonk]

Wow! Became an excellent thread after all - thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

 

John

[andywatson]

An interesting replica tug:

 

http://www.wfbco.co.uk/narrowboats_for_sale/Beeston

[canaldrifter]

Also if it is to short they have very little 'bite' on the water making them difficult to steer and control the boats they are towing.

 

 

How come Bantam tugs work then?

 

Tone

[Chertsey]

How come Bantam tugs work then?

 

Tone

Wild guess, cos they're pushing, not pulling?

 

Go on then.....'elums'???? all I can find is a printing design thingy and a place in washington..........

Corruption of the word 'helm', used to refer to a butty's rudder too. Big and wooden.

[alan_fincher]

I have heard a different explanation from Alan's for the long front decks of narrow boat tugs - which even purpose built ones, mainly on the BCN, also had. A tug needs a big powerful engine, and the long foredeck is necessary to counterbalance its weight.

 

Also if it is to short they have very little 'bite' on the water making them difficult to steer and control the boats they are towing.

 

It does make you wonder about this one, then !

 

(Petter PD2, but quoted as 21 feet overall length for the boat!....)

 

Link to sale details - Rex Wain Tug "Hebe"

 

If it can be handled, I bet it goes, though !......

[Hairy-Neil]

Wild guess, cos they're pushing, not pulling?

 

 

Not only are they pushing, but are rigidly attached to the pan they're working with either chains or hawsers, in effect becoming part of the larger vessel.

[canaldrifter]

Wild guess, cos they're pushing, not pulling?

 

 

 

They can do either. Bantam 'Kingfisher', that sits outside my window now, steers fine solo in river conditions. Certainly better than the 30ft day boats I used to hire out on the Basingstoke. It's more about draft and rudder size than overall length.

 

Tone

[Albion]

Corruption of the word 'helm', used to refer to a butty's rudder too. Big and wooden.

 

That's interesting because I've never heard the term used for anything other than the wooden butty tiller bar. Is it definitely used for the motor tiller as well?

Roger

[Timleech]

That's interesting because I've never heard the term used for anything other than the wooden butty tiller bar. Is it definitely used for the motor tiller as well?

Roger

 

Motor's as well as butty's rudder yes, in my book. Not convinced about the tiller though.

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

It does make you wonder about this one, then !

 

(Petter PD2, but quoted as 21 feet overall length for the boat!....)

 

Link to sale details - Rex Wain Tug "Hebe"

 

If it can be handled, I bet it goes, though !......

 

Nice little boat that. Must go like stink though I wonder if it starts to submarine. More of a toy than a serious worker though - unless you made it into a push tug.

 

They can do either.

 

But they will only usually tow if they are already pushing something.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Speedwheel

[Chertsey]

Motor's as well as butty's rudder yes, in my book. Not convinced about the tiller though.

 

Tim

Yes, I thought the tiller was the tiller in both cases and that the ellum referred to the fixed wooden mechanism on a butty or horseboat. Never heard it used in relation to a motor though. But then I haven't been around as long as some so that doesn't mean it isn't!

 

Just read back and see where the confusion set in. When I said it referred to a butty's rudder too, I meant as well as a day boat's, not a motor's. I'm picturing a train of boats being towed by a tug, all but the last one having had their rudder removed. Am I miles wide of the mark?

Edited February 20, 2011 by Chertsey

[Speedwheel]

That's interesting because I've never heard the term used for anything other than the wooden butty tiller bar. Is it definitely used for the motor tiller as well?

Roger

 

Certainly a couple of the old working boaters that I know of(few and far between now) call the motors rudder an elum.

[RLWP]

I'd have thought that either would be the helm, it being a traditional word for the steering position of a boat

 

Richard

 

"Take the helm, Mr Christian"

[Chertsey]

I'd have thought that either would be the helm, it being a traditional word for the steering position of a boat

 

Richard

 

"Take the helm, Mr Christian"

But words often do get taken up and used in odd ways that bear only a tenuous relation to their original meaning...

[RLWP]

But words often do get taken up and used in odd ways that bear only a tenuous relation to their original meaning...

 

True, the argument so far seems to be trying to go from the specific - a wooden elum on a butty - to the more general to include Motors. In the past it would have covered all steering mechanisms. I'm challenging the held opinion that it only applies to butties, specifically because that could be a modern assumption.

 

Richard

[Albion]

True, the argument so far seems to be trying to go from the specific - a wooden elum on a butty - to the more general to include Motors. In the past it would have covered all steering mechanisms. I'm challenging the held opinion that it only applies to butties, specifically because that could be a modern assumption.

 

Richard

 

I quite agree that the derivation of the word would equally well apply to a motor as a butty, it's just that I've never heard it being used for the motor, whether the spoken word or written in books. You live and learn though; the day you stop learning is the day that they are putting you in your box.

Roger

[robmilton]

We love our tug style, its different, the front has the water tank and pump ect, storage for the genny and all important bbq, with a full width double bed to stretch out in which can be left made up, its good that we have our boats how WE want them for US to enjoy and not all be the same.

[Chertsey]

We love our tug style, its different, the front has the water tank and pump ect, storage for the genny and all important bbq, with a full width double bed to stretch out in which can be left made up, its good that we have our boats how WE want them for US to enjoy and not all be the same.

Indeed, it was just odd that the OP asked what the advantages were and then proceeded to rubbish them.

[jonk]

Indeed, it was just odd that the OP asked what the advantages were and then proceeded to rubbish them.

 

Pity you took offence so easily and couldn't reply directly but 'behind my back'. Nowhere did I 'rubbish' anything - I asked for the advantages of tug-style, you gave some you thought were advantages, I ignored them since I did not consider them particularly advantageous, you remarked that I had ignored them so I gave my reasons for ignoring them - that is hardly rubbishing them - it is part of a DEBATE, which is what the forum is all about, isn't it? I have found that you sometimes post useful information so perhaps this is a one-off, hope so, life is too short to be bad-tempered.

I was genuinely interested in the replies but found very few that were real advantages, but hoped to find out the reasoning behind choosing a tug-style other than 'show'. I did find some reasons that WERE worthwhile and I can see that for some of us the style is worth using.

I found the continuation thread about how tugs were originally used to be most enlightening and of great interest, didn't you? Those looked like real boats and I would love one, but they would not be ideal for present day cruising I would think.

Anyway - hope to meet you face-to-face one day and buy you a beer

[Chertsey]

Pity you took offence so easily and couldn't reply directly but 'behind my back'. Nowhere did I 'rubbish' anything - I asked for the advantages of tug-style, you gave some you thought were advantages, I ignored them since I did not consider them particularly advantageous, you remarked that I had ignored them so I gave my reasons for ignoring them - that is hardly rubbishing them - it is part of a DEBATE, which is what the forum is all about, isn't it? I have found that you sometimes post useful information so perhaps this is a one-off, hope so, life is too short to be bad-tempered.

I was genuinely interested in the replies but found very few that were real advantages, but hoped to find out the reasoning behind choosing a tug-style other than 'show'. I did find some reasons that WERE worthwhile and I can see that for some of us the style is worth using.

I found the continuation thread about how tugs were originally used to be most enlightening and of great interest, didn't you? Those looked like real boats and I would love one, but they would not be ideal for present day cruising I would think.

Anyway - hope to meet you face-to-face one day and buy you a beer

First time I've seen a public forum referred to as being behind someone's back.

Asking for opinions and then arguing with or dismissing the response is generally known as 'picking a fight'.

But yes, a genuinely interesting and informative thread arose, because of genuinely interested and knowledgeable people, of whom there are many on the forum.

[jonk]

First time I've seen a public forum referred to as being behind someone's back.

Asking for opinions and then arguing with or dismissing the response is generally known as 'picking a fight'.

But yes, a genuinely interesting and informative thread arose, because of genuinely interested and knowledgeable people, of whom there are many on the forum.

 

There is a first time for everything! I was referring to your remarks to a third person about me. Asking for opinions and then debating against those opinions is part and parcel of a debating forum, isn't it, certainly there was no intention of 'picking a fight' as you will find should you look back at all my other topics, especially the one about aggressive arguments! In all cases I am genuinely interested - I want to find out as much as I can both for the possible building/buying of my own narrowboat and what others have found.

I am sure most newcomers are in the same position!

 

Yes there are many knowledgeable people on the forum - that is why I like it, but arguments I can do without - they only tend to entrench personal opinions, whereas a cool debate can change opinions (in my experience).

Anyway - a good thread came out of it.

 

This is actually not helping anyone so I am leaving this thread at this point, thanks to all who contributed positively, much appreciated.

 

 

John