Tug style narrow boats

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Excuse me on this one, but a modern Engine would look out of place in a tug engine room.

 

Vintage engines in many respects are easier to maintain than modern ones, assuming they have been rebuilt by a reputable builder. I think resaleabilty would be compromised by a modern engine in a tug.

 

Go the whole hog and get a nice vintage lump, me, a 48ft tug with a 2LW. properly designed you also get a really useful 'hold' under the foredeck as well as the gas locker - the area storage area which normally compromises tug style boats, due to their deep draught.

 

ALBI

[Phil Speight]

Yes, that Mel Davis/Lyons Boatyard tug is wonderful and is now extremely good value at just under £90000. I would be very tempted if I didn't have a very similar boat already (and could afford it) If I was starting from scratch as of today I would look at the two Phil mentioned plus Steve Priest et al at Brinklow, Phil Jones (if I had the time, someone I know waited nearly 5 years) and my first choice if I had both the time and the money would be Keith Ball at Stretton Wharf. I am nearly 62 so I don't have the time for Keith and I certainly no longer have the money although now he no longe needs to roll about in the mud perhaps both his delivery times and his cost will have reduced to realistic levels. The best boat would be one made by Keith from one of the working boat skeletons lurking around his yard - Enceladus (Star class) perhaps although you would go along way to better Magnet Man's

Hi Jim - how are you ? Yes , Mel builds a very tidy boat but the sheer on the back cabin of this one is bit over the top for my personal taste . It all begins to bother me a bit though. We`ve painted a number of roughly Northwich style "tugs" over the years - some very well put together - but none of them really look much like Yarwoods boats, and we do have opportunity of comparing old with new in our yard. More to the point though they have so many fancy bits and so many washers and coach bolts masquerading as rivets that I wonder where it will all end. We`ve reached a point where people will accept rust streaks coming from under imitation rivets early in a boat`s life as an almost inevitable consequence of their unnecessary presence ( unless some poor painter is expected to seal each and every one ) , where they don`t find it odd to see door hinges and other items apparently attached with false rivets or bolts when it`s obviously a weld that`s actually holding it all together , and where we have ground in plank lines ( often going in the wrong direction ) that don`t actually correspond to the way the boat being ( sort of ) copied would have been built . It`s all good fun no doubt and maybe even adds a touch of character to what could be a fairly slab-sided object - but it doesn`t make a pleasure boat into a tug and , more to the point , it costs a fortune. I`d much rather see the extra money going to making a better boat in the first place - one with fewer rust traps and more subtle steelwork ( that bends in more than one direction for a start ).

I hope no-one feels I`m getting at any particular boat or boat-builder , I`m not and, as I said , some of the ones we`ve done have been well put together, very well - but not all of them are and I`m afraid customers are being dazzled by the inconsequential bits. All fur coat , as they say and no ..........

Cheers

Phil

Edited April 19, 2008 by Phil Speight

[interleaf2]

Hi,

 

Excuse me on this one, but a modern Engine would look out of place in a tug engine room.

 

Vintage engines in many respects are easier to maintain than modern ones, assuming they have been rebuilt by a reputable builder. I think resaleabilty would be compromised by a modern engine in a tug.

 

Go the whole hog and get a nice vintage lump, me, a 48ft tug with a 2LW. properly designed you also get a really useful 'hold' under the foredeck as well as the gas locker - the area storage area which normally compromises tug style boats, due to their deep draught.

 

ALBI

 

I agree completely that a modern engine would look out of place in an engine room, but some people with these vintage engines seem to love to do maintenance as much as use them, but me, not so much. I love to move the boat all over the place. What would you consider the most reliable and low maintenance vintage engines?

 

I appreciate the advice very much as I've only owned BMC and Vetus engines. I have experienced deep pangs of jealousy when I hear a vintage engine go by though.

[magnetman]

Phil, it looks like another case of the dreaded 'computer's got a mind of its own' disorder.

[dave moore]

Hi

For a top quality shell in tug style, talk to Graham Edgson at Norton Canes Boatbuilders, 01543 374888. For a preview, go to www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk I'm prejudiced, he's a mate but as a long time boater working around lots of yards I can cofirm the sheer quality if the shell is important to you..no ripples, beautiful balance and proportioned to perfection.

Resolute is mine!

Cheers

Dave Moore

[sarahavfc]

I like the RWD boats a great deal but I'm also rather impressed with the Mel Davis style:

 

 

I see this is described on the Mel Davis website as a "Replica Woolwich/Northwich Tug".

[magnetman]

I like Norton Canes boats, a lot, they would be my 1st choice if i had a new boat built. I particularly like the lack of embellishment and imitation, something i feel is used by some boat constructors to cover up poor quality workmanship and bad lines.

[Timleech]

I see this is described on the Mel Davis website as a "Replica Woolwich/Northwich Tug".

 

 

Well the bows have something of Woolwich about them, while the main handrails are the awful Northwich style & those on the back cabin are more conventional (as used on Woolwich cabins).

 

Two little bits of nitpicking, one is there's too much camber on the main cabin top (for my taste).

The second is those handrails. The original Northwich ones were positively dangerous, just enough clearance under them to get your fingers under, and then get them jammed if you slipped off. Goodbye fingers.

I think he's gone too far with those, they don't need to be that high to be safe & it spoils the look.

Something bothers me about the shape of the back cabin, but can't see it well enough in that pic to be definite.

Oh, & I'd not bother with the 'rivets'.

Still a nice looking boat, though.

 

Tim

[dave moore]

Hi Magnetman

You have it in one! Unpretentious superb engineering, the antidote to most current output. but I mustn't let my grump show!

Dave Moore

[magnetman]

I met 'Resolute' a couple of years ago with Rory 'Sudbury' at the helm. Nice boat.

[interleaf2]

Hi

For a top quality shell in tug style, talk to Graham Edgson at Norton Canes Boatbuilders, 01543 374888. For a preview, go to www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk I'm prejudiced, he's a mate but as a long time boater working around lots of yards I can cofirm the sheer quality if the shell is important to you..no ripples, beautiful balance and proportioned to perfection.

Resolute is mine!

Cheers

Dave Moore

I willing to believe that is excellent advice as I have admired Norton Canes shells for more than 35 years and Graham has an awesome reputation, as had his predecessors. Haven't seen very many tug style boats from Norton Canes but the pictures of "Resolute" on the Norton Canes forum look very attractive. Do you have any more pictures you could share? I apologize if this duplicates my request to "sarah" on the Norton Canes forum. I need to do a selling job on my wife as she is suspicious of the space lost to the foredeck. Need to reach a good compromize as living together on a narrowboat for 4 or 5 years will test our compatibility I think!

[sarahavfc]

I willing to believe that is excellent advice as I have admired Norton Canes shells for more than 35 years and Graham has an awesome reputation, as had his predecessors. Haven't seen very many tug style boats from Norton Canes but the pictures of "Resolute" on the Norton Canes forum look very attractive. Do you have any more pictures you could share? I apologize if this duplicates my request to "sarah" on the Norton Canes forum. I need to do a selling job on my wife as she is suspicious of the space lost to the foredeck. Need to reach a good compromize as living together on a narrowboat for 4 or 5 years will test our compatibility I think!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not resolute, but a recent tug build, outside rusting up prior to gritblasting

 

 

If there are any specific shots you want, let me know.

[interleaf2]

Thanks a lot for the pictures - simply gorgeous!

 

I have a feeling that a Norton Canes tug would be a more practical bet for thousands of days cruising than the Mel Davis "replica". The latter has some beautiful touches, but not so certain about the practicality. The handrails and the "rivets" are nice "eye candy" but maybe not so much fun after a few years' hard use when they need paint work.

 

I've never heard a bad word said about Malcolm Braine's or Graham's boats.

 

Still wondering about the idea of a bed under the foredeck!

[NB Alnwick]

Have you found the deep draught an issue when travelling about? I know from your blog that you had a problem not getting into dry dock at Banbury, but what about notoriously shallow canals like the Upper Peak Forest or Ashby? I think a well designed tug is by far the most attractive style of of boat from the exterior and I find the low front end is a large part of the visual appeal, so having the bow rise high out of the water would defeat the object of trying to retain the low lying look while making good use of the foredeck. I'm trying to sell my wife on the idea that the foredeck could double as a bedroom underneath and a patio on top.

 

One potential concern I have about tugs is whether they are subject to more damage to the cabin from tunnel sides, other boats out of control, etc.. Having low gunwhales means less thick strong hull to hit and more cabin exposed to collision. Maybe having the cabin sides a long way back is an advantage in this case. My two previous narrowboats were David Pipers which were noted for their relatively high gunwhales and these were very practical for long distance cruising, but I have no experience to draw on with tugs. I intend to travel almost continuously so unfortunately have to expect a lot of potential impacts on hard objects.

 

I like the RWD boats a great deal but I'm also rather impressed with the Mel Davis style

 

Take another look at our Website - link below our signature. The deep draught is not a problem, there are lots of deep draughted boats on the canals but you have to be a little more careful when mooring and generally keep to the middle when cruising on the shallowest canals. As a result of the deeper draught, our cabin height is quite low - so no problems with low bridges - and we still have almost seven feet of headroom.

 

It is my view that you cannot get better than an R W Davis Hull fitted with a vintage Kelvin, Gardner or new RN three cylinder diesel. Whether it is correct to call an R W Davis 'Northwich Trader' a 'tug' style is open for debate but the general lines and build quality would be difficult to beat. The only other builder that comes anywhere near (and this is obviously just our opinion) is Roger Fuller.

 

Before buying 'Alnwick' Jane and I looked at dozens of similar boats and visited several builders, all of whom were very helpful. Nevertheless, when we saw the boats being built by R W Davis at Saul Junction there was absolutely no doubt in our minds that they are head and shoulders above most of the rest. We were able to compare our boat with the Mel Davis boat in the picture when it was brand new at Crick with a price tag of £140,000. In our opinion it was an inferior product and, at the time, we couldn't see why anyone would want to pay that much, when they could get an fully fitted and painted R W Davis 'Northwich Trader' for another £20,000 - it looks as if we were right because the price of that boat has been dropping ever since.

 

I know that opinions vary about who might be the best builder and there are other good builders out there but, it has been our experience, that anyone who has visited the yard of R W Davis looking for this style of boat ends up wanting one.

 

If you are coming over to the Crick Boat Show, come and see us - we normally moor near Bridge 13 - near the path to Caracks Hill.

Edited April 19, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[Gary Peacock]

Haven't built a tug for a while but I really don't get replica things at all.

 

It's all smacks of Cubic zirconia diamonds and the like to me.

 

I upset one well known replica tug builder when he asked what I thought and I said it reminded me of Captain Nemo's Nautilus with all those fake rivets.

 

If you want to build a fake and you have the customer with deep enough pockets and long enough arms I suppose it makes good business sence though!

 

A bit off subject but I do admire one rather large fake project that is coming toward fruition HERE dont think it would float though!

[NB Alnwick]

Haven't built a tug for a while but I really don't get replica things at all.

 

It's all smacks of Cubic zirconia diamonds and the like to me.

 

I upset one well known replica tug builder when he asked what I thought and I said it reminded me of Captain Nemo's Nautilus with all those fake rivets.

 

If you want to build a fake and you have the customer with deep enough pockets and long enough arms I suppose it makes good business sence though!

 

A bit off subject but I do admire one rather large fake project that is coming toward fruition HERE dont think it would float though!

 

I think you are being a bit unkind Gary, imitation rivets are really no different to imitation paint jobs with roses and castles - if that is what the customer wants in order to present a traditional appearance, so be it.

 

Your comments about 'Tornado' may be but it is not a pastiche or replica. It has been built in accordance with the principles of what I would argue represented the zenith of steam locomotive design and with all the benefits of modern science and engineering. When it enters service it will be awesome

Edited April 19, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[LEO]

I agree completely that a modern engine would look out of place in an engine room, but some people with these vintage engines seem to love to do maintenance as much as use them, but me, not so much. I love to move the boat all over the place. What would you consider the most reliable and low maintenance vintage engines?

 

I appreciate the advice very much as I've only owned BMC and Vetus engines. I have experienced deep pangs of jealousy when I hear a vintage engine go by though.

 

Hi,

 

Choice of engine depends on personal choice, pocket money available and space available. I wanted a Gardner in a boat max lenght 48ft. Not too many of those about but I struck lucky in the end.

 

I have seen a small tug with a 6L2 in it, but that would be totally impratical for most. Russell Newberry's are nice, most are backed with good owners clubs. I had a BMC in a boat excellent - almost vintage.

 

All vintage engines are nice to look at and listen to, you don't own them though - you are merly a custodian.

 

Albi

[interleaf2]

I think you are being a bit unkind Gary, imitation rivets are really no different to imitation paint jobs with roses and castles - if that is what the customer wants in order to present a traditional appearance, so be it.

 

Your comments about 'Tornado' may be but it is not a pastiche or replica. It has been built in accordance with the principles of what I would argue represented the zenith of steam locomotive design and with all the benefits of modern science and engineering. When it enters service it will be awesome

When it comes to style and design, everyone's likes and dislikes are all over the map.

 

Personally I am trying to collect as much good information as possible so I can combine practicality with attractive appearance. I think this forum is an excellent source of information from people who know what they are talking about. It's amazing that from 8 time zones away I can have a great conversation with Gary Peacock and Norton Canes's folk, etc.

 

To my eyes, the lines of a well-built tug like "Resolute" or Northwich replica like "Alnwick" just look right. They make me smile just to look at them. I really don't care at all whether they are traditional or not. I am not trying to recreate a working boat, just a boat I like to look at as well as live on. My wife likes wide beams with a contemporary interior. So we start from a long way apart. I'm not planning to change my wife, so we need to compromise. It's always worked out so far. I've looked into narrow beam barges (thanks for the great info, Gary, by the way - it just arrived in the mail) and Gary's designs score very high marks for practicality and space. They clearly use good quality equipment and I think they look very good with a wheelhouse but they don't quite stir my soul like the lines of Resolute or Alnwick. In maximizing space you inevitably lose some sexy curves. And to get the curves you end up having to squeeze into a less practical space. I'm not a big fan of traditional interiors in narrowboats. I had a boatman's cabin in North Star, and it's not something I'm crazy for or against. I like vintage diesels not for their looks but for the noise they make. My wife can't see the attraction.

 

The total living space inside a 60' narrow beam is less than 50% the size of our current bedroom, so whatever we decide it's going to be a shock to the system.

 

As for the site, when I was a boy in 1960 I used to stand on the platform of Leeds Central Station and my soul was stirred by Peppercorn A1s and Gresley A3s the same way that narrowboats do now. I can never explain why in words. And when they appeared a few years later, I disliked the look of the Deltics, but the way they sounded as they left the station - makes my spine tingle to think of it even now!

[dave moore]

Hi Interleaf2

Check out the Norton Canes website for pix of the pull out bed, Graham Booth reviwed the boat in July 2006 WW and Sarah has posted yhe article on the site.

We tend to half unmake the bed each morning and push the bed back, then pull it uot at night and remake it - quick, easy and hassle free.

If you'e in the midlands and would like a look, give me a call 07831 243001

Cheers

Dave Moore

[interleaf2]

Hi Interleaf2

Check out the Norton Canes website for pix of the pull out bed, Graham Booth reviwed the boat in July 2006 WW and Sarah has posted yhe article on the site.

We tend to half unmake the bed each morning and push the bed back, then pull it uot at night and remake it - quick, easy and hassle free.

If you'e in the midlands and would like a look, give me a call 07831 243001

Cheers

Dave Moore

Thanks Dave

I read the article and images - lovely boat indeed! The bed idea obviously works well for you.

I'd love to take you up on your offer to take a look at your boat. Unfortunately I currently live in Arizona and it's not so easy to visit the Cannock Extension from here! Here's the type of boat we rented on Lake Powell near the Grand Canyon:

 

It a 59' and yes it has a slide for getting into the water direct from the top deck and you moor by charging at the sloping beaches until you stick. When you want to leave you put the twin engines into reverse at maximum power and hope you unstick.

Cheers!

[gary4lw]

Surely its all in the eye of the beholder!!!! But I,m biased Mel starts building my boat in july ,( Sorry, bastardised imitation of a tug)

Edited April 20, 2008 by gary4lw

[hughc]

Twenty years ago when we first had need of a tug to tow a butty I thought long and hard about the design. I finally settled on a 55' hull with long fine lined swims on a 6' wide 20mm baseplate with a three feet water draught.Seventeen feet of the hull is deck and boy has this been useful. We chose a Ford New Holland BSD 3 engine which gives 42 HP at 2200 and massive amounts of torque and mated this to a Crowther high efficiency propeller. There has never been any need to regret this design outline. We hawked it around the mid-range builders of the time and the only one we approached who was willing to build it was GT Narrow Boats, alas no more. Apart from a couple of pleasure trips, the last finishing yesterday, the boat has always towed, and has always performed well. If you want a tug then these criteria are worth considering. If you are considering towing, especially with novice butty steerers, then you need mass so that you go where you want to and not where the butty wants to take you. You also, in today's conditions, need the power to stop and manouver quickly and this needs a rapid response from the engine not something you will necessarily get with a vintage lump - although the BSD is of an age with many of the 'vintage' engines sought after today. Regards, HughC

[Athy]

Gary, your new boat must be nearing completion now. My wife and I had a tug-style 45 footer (no "rivets"!) built by Mel Davis and launched in August 2006. We are very pleased with her appearance ( combining grace and chunkiness as a tug should) and her performance. How is yours progressing and are you pleased with her?

[Athy]

Our boat, built by Mel Davis, could be called tug-style, though she has a shallow well deck. If I had to describe her visual appeal I'd say that she was graceful and chunky at the same time.

They're making VW Beetles again, so why not Springers? I'm sure the slab-sided, moustache-prowed ugly-pretty ducklings would find a ready market if the price was right. Is Sam Springer still with us?

Edit: come to think of it, following the Beetle analogy, new Springers would have the engine at the front. Might not be so popular.

[johnthebridge]

Our boat, built by Mel Davis, could be called tug-style, though she has a shallow well deck. If I had to describe her visual appeal I'd say that she was graceful and chunky at the same time.

They're making VW Beetles again, so why not Springers? I'm sure the slab-sided, moustache-prowed ugly-pretty ducklings would find a ready market if the price was right. Is Sam Springer still with us?

Edit: come to think of it, following the Beetle analogy, new Springers would have the engine at the front. Might not be so popular.

Sam Springer died quite a few years ago, in the late 70s I seem to remember.

He was quite a character.