Max no of persons on a boat. ?

[Nickhlx]

On our 62' narrowboat, we have a plate that states "max no of persons aboard is 6", or words to that effect.

 

Can anyone confirm how this is arrived at and whether we can get this reviewed ? - it does seem unnecessarily few for the weight of the boat ( around 19 tons) and whose weight varies by more than this when our tanks are full / empty. It technically, precludes us from taking more than two people on the boat as guests.

 

Could we approach the insurance company and ask for their opinion as to where we stand with them, or is this asking for complications ?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

[JonL]

Take the plate off

Problem solved

[Grace and Favour]

On our 62' narrowboat, we have a plate that states "max no of persons aboard is 6", or words to that effect.

 

Can anyone confirm how this is arrived at and whether we can get this reviewed ? - it does seem unnecessarily few for the weight of the boat ( around 19 tons) and whose weight varies by more than this when our tanks are full / empty. It technically, precludes us from taking more than two people on the boat as guests.

 

Could we approach the insurance company and ask for their opinion as to where we stand with them, or is this asking for complications ?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

 

I have a similar query . .

 

Can any of the boatbuilders on CWF tell us how the 'declared figure' is arrived at please?

[Naughty Cal]

Stability calculations?

 

Ours is classed as suitable for six, but this would also be six at sea not just on canals.

[noimnotonfacebook]

i have no such "health and safty" plate on my boat (46ft narrow beam) and have had a total of ten on boadr plus pets and as long as they are distributed evenly the operating of the boat was no diferent to when i was single handed.

i do know of the plates you are refering to however

there is a man in a office somewere (no were near a canal or any other water course)that pulls the number out of his hat and expects people to obay him

remove it or get a "dremal" and change th number .

that would be my advice but remember this i am not a boat builder nor am i a mathamatical genius .

ultimutly its your call

 

hope you solve you problem

 

noimnotonfacebook

[boots]

On ours it is in the RCD documentation:

 

"Designed maximum passengers: 8 persons

(an adult person is considered to weigh 75Kg. The total mass of persons on board should not be exceeded)"

[Chertsey]

I don't have passengers, I have 'self-moving ballast', so am I OK?

[ditchcrawler]

On ours it is in the RCD documentation:

 

"Designed maximum passengers: 8 persons

(an adult person is considered to weigh 75Kg. The total mass of persons on board should not be exceeded)"

The builder declared it, just like he declared the rest of the boat complies with the RCD and nobody needs to check

[Timleech]

On ours it is in the RCD documentation:

 

"Designed maximum passengers: 8 persons

(an adult person is considered to weigh 75Kg. The total mass of persons on board should not be exceeded)"

 

This raises again the possible distinction between 'number of persons aboard' and 'number of passengers', as essential crew are not passengers.

 

I get the impression that some of these RCD plates carry a figure based on how many the accommodation is designed for, rather than any stability calculations. The latter is probably in the 'too hard' basket for some builders.

 

Tim

[Chertsey]

And stability is the key issue surely. Twelve people on the roof and gunnels of a 25' day boat is a very different proposition to twelve people in my hold. Even without considering low bridges.

[Tim]

On ours it is in the RCD documentation:

 

"Designed maximum passengers: 8 persons

(an adult person is considered to weigh 75Kg. The total mass of persons on board should not be exceeded)"

 

 

Ties in with mine, accomodation for 7, maximum passengers 7.

 

It would be interesting to see a definition of crew!

[dor]

As I understand it, the figure is derived from the number of people that can stand on the gunwale and not cause the boat to heel more than 7 degrees. The people being of average weight, although I'm not sure if that is 50kg or 75kg or some other figure.

 

However on a typical narrowboat of typical length - i.e. 57ft & 2ft draught, this equated to 6 people.

 

The surveyor doing my RCD documentation actually came out and arranged six people to stand on the gunwale and he had a board with a plumbline marked with a line at 7 degrees. I suspect most will just say "hmmm - yes six I think".

 

I suspect this thread has been prompted by the picture of the overloaded Nantwich day boat shown on another thread. Considering this boat is barely 30ft long and will be

fairly light as it has little inside it, I am at a loss to know how these boats pass a RCD stability test for the number of people that are allowed on them (i.e. 12). Incidentally it is not uncommon to see people waiting at the junction to jump on the day boat after the 12 legal passengers have got on at the boat yard!

[rjasmith]

Yes - as others have said, if the boat was built from 1998 on when the RCD first came in, its stability requirements are defined in an ISO standard (ISO 12217 Part 1). There's about 50 pages of it covering all recreational boats from canal boats to ocean going yachts.

 

There are various ways of arriving at the result of what the Max People No is to put on the Builder's plate but the easiest is to fill in a set of tables at the back of the document and either do calculations or a simple heeling test (well for canal boats it is - if it's a seagoing yacht you need to call in someone like the RYA to do it otherwise it doesn't count!).

 

It would be difficult to challenge the result later assuming the builder had actually done it properly. You could add ballast I suppose, become deeper drafted and therefore more stable but other things like downflooding heights might then become compromised. I'm also not sure about doing a "redeclaration" of the boat after it's first use. I think this can be complicated, even for a Cat D canal boat.

 

I've spent hours and hours trying to get my head round all this stuff!

 

Of course if your boat was built pre 1998 none of this applies but maybe it's just down to conditions set by your insurance.

 

Richard

[the grinch]

However on a typical narrowboat of typical length - i.e. 57ft & 2ft draught, this equated to 6 people.

 

well then explain how our trip boat of similar dimensions is suitable for 30 plus 3 crew and our wider 9'6" boat again around 60' is licensed for 62 including crew?

[ChrisPy]

The heeling moment of the passengers all crowded on one side can be balanced by heavy ballast and less 'top hamper'.

 

There is no rule of thumb for stability calculations, each boat should be assessed individually. However nearly all normally ballasted leisure or liveaboard modern narrowboats having standard dimensions will have similar characteristics.

[Chertsey]

well then explain how our trip boat of similar dimensions is suitable for 30 plus 3 crew and our wider 9'6" boat again around 60' is licensed for 62 including crew?

Is it because your passengers have to stay in their seats unless explicitly permitted by the crew?

[David Schweizer]

Is it because your passengers have to stay in their seats unless explicitly permitted by the crew?

That is not quite correct, they are allowed to move around the boat but must not allow any part of their body to extend outside the outline of the boat and must not go outside the accomadation cabin without the consent and presence of a crewmember.

 

I have had instances where the entire body of passengers have moved to one side of the boat to view something interesting, burt even 40 stout WI ladies did not seriouisly upset the trim of the boat.

[Morat]

I don't have passengers, I have 'self-moving ballast', so am I OK?

Surely you could fit 20 or 30 people in your hold without causing any danger?

[Chertsey]

Surely you could fit 20 or 30 people in your hold without causing any danger?

Easily I should think but I'm not going to go to the trouble and expense of proving it to get certified for more. The existing limits are probably pretty sensible for most, cabined, boats.

[Nine of Hearts]

As I understand it, the figure is derived from the number of people that can stand on the gunwale and not cause the boat to heel more than 7 degrees. The people being of average weight, although I'm not sure if that is 50kg or 75kg or some other figure.

 

What an odd rule.

 

"and the number of people allowed on this canoe is... "

 

[splash!]

 

"Oooh. None. Shall I help you out, sir?"

[Keeping Up]

Suppose you put up a notice by each door saying "no more than 3 people are permitted to stand on the gunwale at any time", wouldn't that cover it?

[Radiomariner]

Suggest you have a look at this link to give you an insight to how these things work

 

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?f...eakaway%205.pdf

 

Edited to add: Interesting reading

Edited August 19, 2010 by Radiomariner

[the grinch]

Is it because your passengers have to stay in their seats unless explicitly permitted by the crew?

nope!

 

That is not quite correct, they are allowed to move around the boat but must not allow any part of their body to extend outside the outline of the boat and must not go outside the accomadation cabin without the consent and presence of a crewmember.

 

I have had instances where the entire body of passengers have moved to one side of the boat to view something interesting, burt even 40 stout WI ladies did not seriouisly upset the trim of the boat.

 

yes you are quite right, although haven't put the WI to the test