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Useful information thanks!

 

Adam Brown, out of interest are you also an experienced coach painter / experienced refinisher (like Radio Ga Ga)?

 

Me? I'm sure your aware that I'm not. However I do have a bit of experience in these matters with having been a Craftmaster Stockist for 3 years and closely involved in all aspects of the company since January.

 

I have picked up a fair bit of knowledge in that time. I still have gaps though and for these I rely on Phil to point me the right way. I dont profess to know everything about everything. But where something touches on my knowledge and it doesn't quite track right I'll ask or share my views / information. I'll usually run it by Phil though and in this case I did.

 

I wasn't aware the RGG was a experienced painter/refinisher - hence I asked what his background was :lol:

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:lol: Thanks to Adam, for sharing some of his inside knowledge and experience, very useful to know what's similar and what isn't, from someone directly connected. Looks like Phil's got a useful person looking after things! :lol:

 

PC

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I have no axe to grind with you.

 

I have a different data sheet for that product

 

So calm down

 

Yes they do have a limited colour range but KX is an any colour product

 

To date shown to be incorrect? I'm not aware that I have.

 

You are on here giving advice but maybe it would be nice if people new who you are and what your experience is. Me and Phil are both known to be from Craftmaster so we have the technical back up of HMG and Phils extensive experience

 

I am not trying to antagonise you I am curious to you background and the basis of you advice to others.

 

Oh and Next time could you just post a link to the data sheet? Cos they are very long after all.

 

Twice I've written extensive responses to this and lost my mobile connection so this has to be quick.

my experience has been declared in other painting threads including at least one you posted in, nothing hidden, and will post again when I move location

Edited by Radio-Ga-Ga
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Hmm........I go to work for a couple of weeks and when I get back we`re all squabbling ! Adam is not an experienced vehicle refinisher - quite right. I`m not a motor mechanic - but I understand how cars work. Thats not the point though. I don`t know if ....yes it is a bit flaky up here ( see below ! ) - I qualify either - since Im not a spray painter . I am however extremely well experienced with a brush ! It is fairly well known that I started coach painting over 40 years ago. So, I know the business very well. My technical knowledge comes from experience backed up by 12 years working very closely with HMG and although I have backed off now the close friendships I made at the factory remain. I can say with absolute confidence that you will find no more diligent and honest a company

than HMG in the industry.

We all have our favourites and this will often confuse laypersons who read our various opinions. All I can say is that the combination of HMG `s Kx undercoat and their standard Coach Enamel is one I would wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who isn`t happy to use ( or , mayhap, pay for ) Craftmaster. This by implication means that I would be happy to use the same materials if they were labelled and sold by any of our opposition. Which they are. Happily I have Craftmaster , I know how it works both technically and on the shop floor and I like it . Good job I do really !

This though is only my opinion. I`ve said many times here that none of the principal suppliers to the canal market make bad paint and I say it again now. Stick to the combination of products they put out there on the stockist`s shelves , allow for the conditions in which you will be painting and don`t try to be too clever unless you are well qualified to be so. As a simple rule of thumb don`t expect to re-coat anything on the day you painted it. Test a small area before rubbing the whole area down - if your paint has gone touch dry too quickly because of high temperatures for instance it may well be dry on the surface but still wet underneath. Our paints generally are recoatble in 16 hours - but that may as well be 24 unless you are going to work all night. Remember though that paint , and it`s drying, can be affected by many outside agencies. Take nothing for granted. That said , if a relatively standard synthetic/poly undercoat is still not dry after 24 hours I`d be looking for a reason !

 

So - let`s not fall out among ourselves all you painters out there. We`re colleagues , not enemies and neither need we fear each other as competition. There are lot`s of work for us all ! I am happy to discuss , disagree , bounce ideas around and so on among those here who need help and those who are in a position to offer it.

One thing Adam has that I haven`t , apart from youth , health , ambition etc , is a whole barrage of technical information available to him. He`s willing to share it although he is in no way obliged to , and , like me , and other posters here , genuinely tries to be helpful.

Cheers

Phil

Edited by Phil Speight
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One thing Adam has that I haven`t , apart from youth , health , ambition etc , is a whole barrage of technical information available to him. He`s willing to share it although he is in no way obliged to , and , like me , and other posters here , genuinely tries to be helpful.

 

I think what may have happened here is that Adam has accidently rubbed a few people up the wrong way :lol:

 

All part of settling in to CWDF I suppose!

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Hi Phil,

A good post that saved somebody from some more tongue lashing he seemed put out that I was knocking HMG, not the case at all. Most refinishers see synthetic paint as a problem solver not a first choice, where a non standard paint has previously been used and the cost of stripping or isolating is prohibitive, having made the decision to use a synthetic to avoid a reaction its pretty infuriating when the paint reacts with its own primer/undercoat. When a paint problem occurs the manufacturer has the get-out that use of their product is outside their control and particularly when the user is a one off purchaser would never admit liability.

You are without doubt a highly skilled man, but from time to time you have to don a paint suppliers hat, I’ve used A1242 after it reacted but clearly once bitten, I acted on HMG’s own advice and extended the drying time, knowing a refinisher who had a reaction with KX, less severe but a reaction no less, that can also be prevented by extending the drying time it is reasonable to group them together. Differently marketed HMG paints have had their problems too, even when applied by a professional boat painter and if someone had said “if you apply that topcoat today it might blister but if you wait till tomorrow it’ll probably be ok would they have carried on and ended up having to repaint it?. My advice on HMG undercoat remains good regardless of what colour tin it comes in, waiting an extra day with certain types is a lot easier than the possibility of having to spend days rectifying. As far as HMG’s service goes no problem, they are probably the only company I’ve ever dealt with that say “we will ring you back” and do, every time.

Out of interest HMG’s own suggested undercoat is synthetic high opacity undercoat; DG142, rather than KX which is sold as an undercoat/primer.

As we both hold HMG products in high regard, it makes you wonder how this debate got started. Oh yes somebody called black white again, I recall telling him they did, but don’t recall saying its compulsory.

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Ga Ga

 

This is the last I will say on the subject as its getting daft and everybody is no doubt getting board.

 

I'm not put out that your knocking HMG. Its part of life - everyone has their own prefferances.

 

I do happen to disagree with your view on the undercoats so we will have to agree to differ on that one.

 

I haven't argued black is white (tried that earlier in the year to amusing affect but thats another story). And I am not aware that we had crossed swords before.

 

I will however offer an apology if you felt that my original post was questioning your competency. The undertone was there and it was perhaps a litte childish of me. So sorry. If you want to continue this discussion I will be happy to do so via a PM. For now lets just get back to doing whatever it is we do on here.

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Ga Ga

 

This is the last I will say on the subject as its getting daft and everybody is no doubt getting board.

 

I'm not put out that your knocking HMG. Its part of life - everyone has their own prefferances.

 

I do happen to disagree with your view on the undercoats so we will have to agree to differ on that one.

 

I haven't argued black is white (tried that earlier in the year to amusing affect but thats another story). And I am not aware that we had crossed swords before.

 

I will however offer an apology if you felt that my original post was questioning your competency. The undertone was there and it was perhaps a litte childish of me. So sorry. If you want to continue this discussion I will be happy to do so via a PM. For now lets just get back to doing whatever it is we do on here.

Yes it is a bit tiresome and now you come to mention it, what is it we do on here? :lol:

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Ga Ga

 

This is the last I will say on the subject as its getting daft and everybody is no doubt getting board.

 

I'm not put out that your knocking HMG. Its part of life - everyone has their own prefferances.

 

I do happen to disagree with your view on the undercoats so we will have to agree to differ on that one.

 

I haven't argued black is white (tried that earlier in the year to amusing affect but thats another story). And I am not aware that we had crossed swords before.

 

I will however offer an apology if you felt that my original post was questioning your competency. The undertone was there and it was perhaps a litte childish of me. So sorry. If you want to continue this discussion I will be happy to do so via a PM. For now lets just get back to doing whatever it is we do on here.

My login is RADIO-GA-GA a reference to my passion for ham radio rather than GA-GA that means something else.

Something I'm as guilty of as anybody is forgeting that behind each post is a real person with feelings, sometimes things can be said in response to a few lines of text that would be said in a completely different way in a face to face converstion.

As the new guy in the room eveybody remembers you where it takes time for you to remeber them, and yes we have had a little tiff before :lol:

Apology fully accepted, 'tho if we can't be boring or squabble there probably would't be much to say :lol:

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