L&L closure

[dor]

Just watched a report on the L&L closure on the North West news on BBC.

 

Vince Moran spouting the normal corporate speak and local BW person reiterating it is all the fault of the weather.

 

Regrettably a very unbalanced report as no one was given the opportunity to point out the huge waste of water which occurs due to leaking gates and leaks in the system.

 

Whilst apparently the hire companies (according to BW) are unaffected because they moved boats elsewhere, no mention of the huge impact this will have on marinas, canalside pubs and other businesses.

[Josher]

BBC Lancashire.

Bad canal etiquette contributing to water shortage

Canal users

Some canal users aren't helping to help restore water levels

 

Inconsiderate canal users are adding to the North West's water shortage, says Joyce Plummer of Barrowford Boating Club as a 60 mile stretch of the Leeds-Liverpool canal is closed.

 

British Waterways have shut almost half of the Leeds-Liverpool canal to save water as the region's reservoirs levels have plummeted.

 

Plummer says it's not only the lack of rain that's caused low water levels.

 

"A lot of water's lost due to careless operation of the locks by boaters.

 

'Frustrating'

 

"I appreciate the closure is very frustrating and annoying for boaters especially with all the recent rain we've had," she says, "but a lot of water has been lost which hasn't helped the situation."

 

Despite a warning by British Waterways of a possible closure last month Plummer says she has witnessed "an awful lot of wastage" in recent weeks.

 

Just ten days ago, a thoughtless private boat owner coming through the lock at Blackburn flooded a nearby road.

 

Plummer explains: "They left the paddles open a great deal of water escaped which resulted in the road being closed because it was flooded and the police had to attend the scene."

 

There have also been incidences of boaters ignoring the locks opening hours and breaking through the locks instead of waiting for the opening hours which Plummer points out is an unnecessary use of water supplies when reservoir levels are so low.

 

High and dry

 

And users of the canal network have been asked to double up when they go through locks yet some boaters are going through one at a time.

 

In her 22 years of canalling, the 69 year old says this is the first time she has been seriously affected by water restrictions.

 

She says the closure comes "at a very bad time" for the waterways. "It is the busiest time and it has been very inconvenient," she says.

 

Many people have had to cancel planned holidays on the canal and she knows of two boat owners in particular who have been left high and dry by the closure.

 

One had taken their boat to Skipton for repair and won't be able to get it back while the restrictions remain while another has bought boat in the Midlands and had to have it transported back by road, at a considerable cost.

 

"I do have a lot of sympathy for the boaters but on the other hand I have seen such a lot of waste of water."

[Natalie Graham]

There have also been incidences of boaters ignoring the locks opening hours and breaking through the locks instead of waiting for the opening hours which Plummer points out is an unnecessary use of water supplies when reservoir levels are so low.

 

Now we all know a big boat uses more (or is it less) water than a little boat but can anyone explain to me how a boat uses more water if it locks through outside the "opening hours". I have never been able to see the logic in reducing the time a lock is open to save water. A boat locking through at 3pm is not going to use any less water than if it locks through at 3am.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Natalie Graham

[matty40s]

Now we all know a big boat uses more (or is it less) water than a little boat but can anyone explain to me how a boat uses more water if it locks through outside the "opening hours". I have never been able to see the logic in reducing the time a lock is open to save water. A boat locking through at 3pm is not going to use any less water than if it locks through at 3am.

 

 

If BW personnel are there to ensure 1 up and 1 down etc, have walkie talkies to co-ordinate boat movements and how many boats are in which area, then it could save a considerable amount inside the prescribed times.

They should also know which bits leak the most and try to leave those locks/pounds emptied at the close time, thus reducing loss and wastage.

[Nine of Hearts]

Now we all know a big boat uses more (or is it less) water than a little boat but can anyone explain to me how a boat uses more water if it locks through outside the "opening hours". I have never been able to see the logic in reducing the time a lock is open to save water. A boat locking through at 3pm is not going to use any less water than if it locks through at 3am.

 

Perhaps they are working on the principle that water is more dense when it is colder? (A bit like the advice to always fuel your car in the early hours when petrol/diesel is at its densest). Of course, water becomes spectacularly less dense again when it freezes, so perhaps that's an even more optimum time to go through a lock? Although then you'd have to cut the water into chunks and move it by hand.

[Tim]

Perhaps they are working on the principle that water is more dense when it is colder? (A bit like the advice to always fuel your car in the early hours when petrol/diesel is at its densest). Of course, water becomes spectacularly less dense again when it freezes, so perhaps that's an even more optimum time to go through a lock? Although then you'd have to cut the water into chunks and move it by hand.

 

Perhaps there's more chance of a lock being shared at 3.00pm!

[Mick and Maggie]

We could all do more to make sure that locks are closed correctly. On Saturday I took the dog for a walk along the towpath. I had to give BW a ring because someone had left a paddle up on a lock. The pound above was about 2ft down. Unfortunately I don't carry a windlass whilst walking the dog. Otherwise I could have fixed the problem. But it is not always BW at fault, BW are occasionally not to blame. BW were there in less than half an hour and within a couple of hours all was back to normal.

 

M&M

[GSer]

We could all do more to make sure that locks are closed correctly. On Saturday I took the dog for a walk along the towpath. I had to give BW a ring because someone had left a paddle up on a lock. The pound above was about 2ft down. Unfortunately I don't carry a windlass whilst walking the dog. Otherwise I could have fixed the problem. But it is not always BW at fault, BW are occasionally not to blame. BW were there in less than half an hour and within a couple of hours all was back to normal.

 

M&M

 

 

I'll second that, boaters around here waste huge amounts of water at times, sometimes due to selfishness, ignorance and lasyness, at other times by accident. We are the major users and for that reason a fair proportion of the blame must rest upon our collective shoulders, BW are by no means innocent but by and large (especially around here) their time is spent flitting here and their keeping levels reasonable despite some of our best efforts.

 

I think the sneakiest restriction of boat traffic i've seen is here on the K&A where they keep only one set of paddles working on each end of the lock, it effectivily nearly doubles the passage time, that along with poor maintainance of the swing bridges means journeys that used to take 3-4 hrs just 5 or 6 years back are now 5-6hrs in duration.

 

Paul

[Josher]

BBC video report Here

[magpie patrick]

Now we all know a big boat uses more (or is it less) water than a little boat but can anyone explain to me how a boat uses more water if it locks through outside the "opening hours". I have never been able to see the logic in reducing the time a lock is open to save water. A boat locking through at 3pm is not going to use any less water than if it locks through at 3am.

 

There are two reasons for restrictions

 

The first is that BW lock the flight, and in doing so, check that everything is secure for the night, no half open paddles or anything like that. In a drought, the last thing you need is to find that some twonker went through at nine PM and left a paddle open draining a pound.

 

The other is that restrictions put people off. An extreme example from 1976, when I had a holiday with mum and dad (I was ten). the drought, even at Whit, reduced operating hours between Napton and Aynho to 3 hours, that was noon till 3pm. In the face of this, dad changed our planned route from Fenny Compton to Oxford and instead we went down the Ashby Canal and into Coventry, the only locks we did with severe restrictions were Napton.

 

It also made people share, although these days there are few boats that can share a narrow lock (I am looking forward to that with Juno, should we meet a 45 footer or less...)

[MartinClark]

The first is that BW lock the flight, and in doing so, check that everything is secure for the night, no half open paddles or anything like that. In a drought, the last thing you need is to find that some twonker went through at nine PM and left a paddle open draining a pound.

 

In the case of the central part of the Leeds and Liverpool the locks are together in clusters with long pounds between. Imagine finding that some twonker had gone through the top lock in Blackburn at 9 pm and left a paddle up, draining the 22 miles of canal to Barrowford!

[Speedwheel]

In her 22 years of canalling

 

Canalling - does that make her a canaller, one who canals? (or as Jeremy Clarkson would say a 'Canalist')

Edited August 2, 2010 by Speedwheel

[Pluto]

I have just been doing a bit of a calculation regarding the L&LC's water requirements circa 1913, when over 2 million tons of goods were carried. At 45 tons per boat, this would equate to 44,444 loaded boat movements annually, or 120 boats per day. Monthly tonnages were similar throughout the year, with no great variation. The majority of this traffic was between Wigan and Liverpool, with less than 20 boats per day passing the summit. The figures for boats crossing the summit today are similar, around 20 per day in the summer. Historically six times as much water was required by boats using the lower levels of the canal. The amount of water supplied was then doubled to account for leakage, evaporation etc. At times of heavy rainfall, well over half the water requirement was provided by feeders and streams running into the canal, rather than from reservoirs.

 

From these figures, it is fairly easy to see that the major problem with water supply today is the additional supplies needed to account for the excessive leakage caused by poor or non-existent maintenance since nationalisation, with recent cutbacks in funding exacerbating the situation. What annoys me, besides the sale of lock keepers cottages, and poor water control early in the year, is the visible lack of simple maintenance being carried out, such as ensuring that mitres meet effectively on the gates.

[Dalesman]

In the case of the central part of the Leeds and Liverpool the locks are together in clusters with long pounds between. Imagine finding that some twonker had gone through the top lock in Blackburn at 9 pm and left a paddle up, draining the 22 miles of canal to Barrowford!

How does leaving a paddle up on a full lock drain the pound..Is it because the bottom gates leak so bad..?

[CanalWalker]

Whent he BBC says the canal is closed to boaters, do they mean the locks are closed to boaters or that any sailing along the whole length is banned?

[MartinClark]

How does leaving a paddle up on a full lock drain the pound..Is it because the bottom gates leak so bad..?

 

Have you not noticed?

 

 

Whent he BBC says the canal is closed to boaters, do they mean the locks are closed to boaters or that any sailing along the whole length is banned?

 

The locks are closed to boaters. But also BW is turning off the feed from the reservoirs so levels will start dropping, making navigation along the pounds more difficult.

[Mikeonb4c]

I have just been doing a bit of a calculation regarding the L&LC's water requirements circa 1913, when over 2 million tons of goods were carried. At 45 tons per boat, this would equate to 44,444 loaded boat movements annually, or 120 boats per day. Monthly tonnages were similar throughout the year, with no great variation. The majority of this traffic was between Wigan and Liverpool, with less than 20 boats per day passing the summit. The figures for boats crossing the summit today are similar, around 20 per day in the summer. Historically six times as much water was required by boats using the lower levels of the canal. The amount of water supplied was then doubled to account for leakage, evaporation etc. At times of heavy rainfall, well over half the water requirement was provided by feeders and streams running into the canal, rather than from reservoirs.

 

From these figures, it is fairly easy to see that the major problem with water supply today is the additional supplies needed to account for the excessive leakage caused by poor or non-existent maintenance since nationalisation, with recent cutbacks in funding exacerbating the situation. What annoys me, besides the sale of lock keepers cottages, and poor water control early in the year, is the visible lack of simple maintenance being carried out, such as ensuring that mitres meet effectively on the gates.

 

 

I hate all the current political cant, including Mr Camerons 'Big Society' vision (you do it, I'll watch admiringly from a Chelsea wine bar before rushing to get the kids from their private school etc.).

 

BUT......if I found myself living on a narrowboat and with (or becuase of) zilch employment prospects, my biggest worry would be not running out of reasons to get up in the morning and look forward to the day. In such a situation, and if someone covered my costs (+maybe enough for a pint or two at days end), I might find it interesting to learn about canal lock repairing and to help out where I could. Mind you, health and safety liability would probably stop them enlisting my help.

[Guest]

The closure made the main ITV news tonight - with a very brief reference to the need for hire boat companies to re-locate - I'm guessing Karen Holt who was interviewed is associated with canalboatescapes...

 

as said before guys good luck with the move..

[gaggle]

In the case of the central part of the Leeds and Liverpool the locks are together in clusters with long pounds between. Imagine finding that some twonker had gone through the top lock in Blackburn at 9 pm and left a paddle up, draining the 22 miles of canal to Barrowford!

 

If by accident a paddle on the top gate was left open surely that would just fill the lock and that is it ,unless the bottom gates are leaking badly so it never fills allowing the pound to drain , same if just the bottom gate paddle is left open unless the top gates are leaking badly the lock would just empty and not the pound above.

Or am i missing something really obvious.

I hear about and have seen pounds empty and always thought it was down to vandals deliberately opening a paddle on top and bottom gates to allow water through or very badly maintained lock gates.

[mayalld]

Now we all know a big boat uses more (or is it less) water than a little boat but can anyone explain to me how a boat uses more water if it locks through outside the "opening hours". I have never been able to see the logic in reducing the time a lock is open to save water. A boat locking through at 3pm is not going to use any less water than if it locks through at 3am.

 

Lock opening restrictions help to increase the extent to which locks are shared, and to reduce the number of times that locks are turned without a boat in them.

[MartinClark]

I'm surprised that some of you have not witnessed badly-leaking gates.

 

I can think of a few examples on the Huddersfield Narrow. I remember several locks that, as soon as you closed the top gate, you could watch the level in the lock going down. I remember trying to exit a full lock only to find the water level dropping beneath me. The boat came to a stop over the top cill and I had to shout to someone at the next lock to open a paddle and let more water down, or it would have been nasty!

 

Going up the Marsden locks once, an inexperienced BW guy, seeing the lock was just about full, closed the off-side paddle and came across to the balance beam side, only to to find that, with only one paddle open, the level was dropping again!

 

The top lock at Marsden drains itself. If it is filled and the top gates opened waiting for a boat, the water leaking through the bottom gate floods the towpath under the bridge.

 

This is the worst one I have seen, Lock 12e photographed a year ago when it was almost impossible to get the top gates open:

[Josher]

Do I win?

 

[MartinClark]

Do I win?

 

Yes, I think you do!

 

That's certainly got more holes in it than this one I saw on the Rochdale Canal, not far from the Summit that is suffering from inadequate supply:

[the grinch]

Do I win?

 

 

No

as its obvious that the bottom gates must still be good!

[Timleech]

If by accident a paddle on the top gate was left open surely that would just fill the lock and that is it ,unless the bottom gates are leaking badly so it never fills allowing the pound to drain , same if just the bottom gate paddle is left open unless the top gates are leaking badly the lock would just empty and not the pound above.

Or am i missing something really obvious.

I hear about and have seen pounds empty and always thought it was down to vandals deliberately opening a paddle on top and bottom gates to allow water through or very badly maintained lock gates.

 

Bottom gates are bigger, giving a greater potential for leakage, and there is more pressure on that extra area (the lower part of the bottom gate) so any leak will pass more water. They will also suffer more abrasion from boats on the mitre posts at what is below the water level of a full lock.

 

Tim