Brentford to Limehouse..............

[benfordboy]

Looking for Advice on the trip from Brenford to Limehouse.

 

We will be coming down from Isis Lock Junction in a couple of weeks , The initial plan was to come in at Brentford & out at Limehouse , back to Brentford & back down the GU to Leics.

 

However Watercape is shpwing Lock 101b 'Thames Lock' as under stoppages during this time - For weir & gate repairs , so unsure if we will be able to come in at Brentford.

 

Have allways been advised on the Limehouse-Brentford stretch to come out of Limehouse very early morn to avoid all trip/ferry traffic etc. Is this possible coming from Brentford to Limehouse (I know the entrance is harder this way)

 

Any comments / help appreciated.

[Tim]

Would recommend Limehouse to Brentford for a first trip, it's tide dependant so you can't guarantee an early morning trip, it's only busy until Westminster and it's not that scary once you get used to it.

[Derek R.]

Alan has just done Limehouse to Brentford HERE

 

Derek

[benfordboy]

Thats the problem really - It looks like Limehouse to Brentford may be scuppered as Thames Lock on the Brenford Cut may be shut.....

 

Guess we will have to make a few calls on route - if all else fails we can explore the Thames & return via the oxford

Edited August 1, 2010 by benfordboy

[Tim]

Thames Lock at Brentford is a pair, are you sure both are closed?

 

Edited to say : I think they're a pair? Sure to be corrected if not!

Edited August 1, 2010 by Tim

[benfordboy]

Thames Lock at Brentford is a pair, are you sure both are closed?

 

Edited to say : I think they're a pair? Sure to be corrected if not!

 

That could be good news for us then - Waterscape says weir repairs & gates to Lock 101B - Maybe this means 101A is open then if its a pair !!!

 

Any comments from locals ??

[alias]

Thames Lock at Brentford is a pair, are you sure both are closed?

 

Edited to say : I think they're a pair? Sure to be corrected if not!

 

They are a pair and the stoppage notice mentions only one of them.

[alan_fincher]

When we came through Thames Lock Brentford on Friday, I noticed that there are signs up indicating the right hand lock is out of use.

 

That said, we have always been directed into the left hand one when coming through, so I don't know to what extent the second one is used anyway.

 

I would not have wanted to try getting in to Limehouse on Friday. It really was more than a bit rough there, and having now done from Limehouse twice, I am still nothing like ready to try to Limehouse!

[benfordboy]

Good news that we can come in at Brentford either way...........

 

Whether we continue to Limehouse or just head back down the GU will depend on time & tides I guess maybe a call to Limehouseon route will decide

 

A good trip anyhow !

[blackrose]

Good news that we can come in at Brentford either way...........

 

Whether we continue to Limehouse or just head back down the GU will depend on time & tides I guess maybe a call to Limehouseon route will decide

 

A good trip anyhow !

 

As Alan has indicated, doing the trip from Brentford to Limehouse is not for the feinthearted. I've done it a few times in both directions and I would definitely recommend doing it the Limehouse to Brentford direction unless you actually want a rather challenging bit at the end. The Brentford Lockkeeper will tell you exactly what repairs are being done and what times you can enter or leave Thames lock if you give them a call. If they don't answer leave a message and they'll call you back.

 

If you do decide to go from Brentford to Limehouse call the Limehouse lockkeeper in advance (you don't want to be on the tideway running downstream with the tide only to find out that you have miscalculated the times and you cannot get into Limehouse basin!) Also call them as you pass under Tower Bridge to let them know you are approaching. You need a suitably powered craft to get you in at Limehouse. Leave Brentford early and punch the tide for at least half an hour before it turns to carry you downstream. This might make it easier for you to get in. If you leave it too late - or try to do it in one go from Teddington, by the time you get to Limehouse it could be running out very fast (depending in the particular tide), making it more difficult to get in.

 

Of course you will need an anchor and chain and VHF either way you go.

Edited August 2, 2010 by blackrose

[WJM]

101b is closed for repair. It has actually been closed for years. 101a is still working fine - so no problem, business as usual at Brentford.

[blackrose]

Moderators, do you think these links could be pinned somewhere on the forum please? I've dug them up a few times when this subject comes up as they really are useful guides for anyone attempting the Thames tideway and I'd say essential for anyone doing it for the first time.

 

Thanks

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/33.pdf

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/35.pdf

[Lady Muck]

ok done

[blackrose]

ok done

 

Cheers

[DHutch]

Moved to FAQ

[Duchess Omnium]

Just to add that I did Limehouse to Brentford in June. A lot of people had made it sound very scary, which it wasn't -- it was great fun.

 

But just as a warning, I had the Nicholson Guide to the Thames that I bought NEW from a chandlery less than two years ago. The guide said narrowboats less than 65 feet were exempt from VHF radio license requirement, so I didn't worry. That's wrong! The latest edition corrects that error, but many bookstores and especially chandleries may still stock the older (not very old) guidebook. The requirement changed only a few years ago.

 

So one week before my trip I was faced with taking a VHF radio course (passing a competency exam is a requirement) and fast tracking my certificate from the RYA. All of which was very expensive -- and I was lucky to find a course at all at such late notice.

 

At Limehouse they didn't ask for my certificate, or my license. They just asked if I had a radio. But if I hadn't had a license and a certificate, I bet they would have wanted to see them!

 

Moral of the story: any narrowboat over 45 feet going on the tidal Thames past Brentford needs a VHF radio, a VHF radio license, and a certificate of compentence to use a VHF radio, issued by the RYA, usually after attending a full day course. The license is free, but the certificate is expensive! If you have the certificate and the license you can borrow a handheld radio (that's what I did).

[blackrose]

Just to add that I did Limehouse to Brentford in June. A lot of people had made it sound very scary, which it wasn't -- it was great fun.

 

The trip that's been made to sound scary on the forum isn't Limehouse to Brentford, it's Brentford to Limehouse, and the turn into Limehouse can indeed be scary.

[Duchess Omnium]

The trip that's been made to sound scary on the forum isn't Limehouse to Brentford, it's Brentford to Limehouse, and the turn into Limehouse can indeed be scary.

 

Oh, yes, I am quite clear that that is scary. That's why I did it in the other direction. But even so everyone -- not necessarily here on this forum -- made the whole tidal Thames thing sound scary. The VHF radio course with the MayDay calls etc, etc, didn't do anything to reassure me.

[blackrose]

Oh, yes, I am quite clear that that is scary. That's why I did it in the other direction. But even so everyone -- not necessarily here on this forum -- made the whole tidal Thames thing sound scary. The VHF radio course with the MayDay calls etc, etc, didn't do anything to reassure me.

 

Yes, it's not as difficult as some make out as long as you've prepared properly and keep a good lookout for other river traffic.

 

Mind you, I wouldn't fancy breaking down and having to deploy an anchor on the tideway going in either direction.

[alan_fincher]

Going the "easy" way, my biggest fear is that the engine stops running for any reason, or something happens like an overheat, where you are forced to stop it.

 

From what I have been told, deploying a typical narrow boat anchor in some of that stretch would be useless. I have been told that depth will defeat many people though not investigated how true this is. I really wouldn't fancy being there with no power.

 

On both occasions we have done Limehouse to Brentford, whilst multiple narrow boats have been despatched to Teddington before us, because they do the Brentford boats at lower priority, we have ended up being locked through alone, so have never seen another canal boat on our passage, hence no chance of being taken in tow by one, (or being able to assist someone else).

 

Other than that, it is perhaps sometimes a bit overstated, although we really did have a pretty roller coaster ride last time, with lots of pitching from front to back, and enough water over the front that the well deck quickly had an inch or more of water in it much of the time. Not to everybody's taste, I rather suspect.

 

I think the VHF Radio thing is very necessary, personally, but it's a great shame that 95% of the material covered on an RYA course is in any way relevant to use on that part of the Thames. A pity there can't be some kind of "restricted" "inland only" licence that teaches you the basics, and how not to be a nuisance or danger to others, without spending hours on DSC, GMDSS, MMSI, MARS, EPIRB, NAVTEX, (to mention just a selection of what you largely don't need to know, biut where much of the emphasis ends up).

 

Even training in issuing a Mayday seems fairly irrelevant to my simple brain - I assume that if in distress you would simply call London VTS and await advice.

 

The course teaches you correct radio procedures, like the use of "over" or "out", but if you actually do this you sound a complete prat, as nobody on the Thames, including London VTS themselves, seem to make much use of "correct procedure" to this degree!

[matty40s]

Until this latest update I was under the impression I didn't need VHS, now I do, I'm probably going to have to change plans.

Another issue is the front deck drain holes, in the StPCC notes it says block these up, surely they are there to drain the water (which built up in Alans case) or at 7 " above normal flat water, would they let more in than out??

Lastly, do you recommend filling the front water tank before taking part, does this assist stability and passage?? (it can lower the front end by 3")

[alan_fincher]

Until this latest update I was under the impression I didn't need VHS, now I do, I'm probably going to have to change plans.

You don't need VHS, Betamax or even Philips Video 2000.

 

You must however have a VHF radio, and the necessary certification to use it, (unless in convoy with other boats that have it).

 

Sorry, I assumed you had it when I heard you hoped to do the run from Limehouse.

 

Another issue is the front deck drain holes, in the StPCC notes it says block these up, surely they are there to drain the water (which built up in Alans case) or at 7 " above normal flat water, would they let more in than out??

Lastly, do you recommend filling the front water tank before taking part, does this assist stability and passage?? (it can lower the front end by 3")

I'd not want to have them blocked, on our boat at least - very necessary that lots of water can get out fast!

 

But I think you can enclose your front end, and avoid it coming in like it does with an uncovered one, so could avoid the "water over the front" issue.

 

I don't think that the amount of fill of the water tank would make dramatic difference, but I could be wrong.

 

From my (limited) experience the biggest difference is made by boat length. When I went on "Keeping Up" (67 feet, I think) it was remarkably stable, but the small 34 foot boat he was accompanying looked tossed all over the place. Chalice (50 foot) proves a very much more lively ride than "Keeping Up". I think it's to do with how many wave peaks it is sitting in - Keeping Up spanned enough not to pitch from front to back, but Chalice does a great deal of this. The uxter plate keeps rising well out the water, before smacking down into it. I'll swear you can hear the prop out of water some of the time! I think your boat would handle it very well, with less of the drama.

[Duchess Omnium]

You must however have a VHF radio, and the necessary certification to use it, (unless in convoy with other boats that have it).

 

I know you have just done it, Alan, but I am pretty sure that the convoy dispensation applies to the Teddington to Brentford / Brentford to Teddington stretch only. I think ALL boats on the Brentford Limehouse stretch (in either direction) now require a VHF on each boat.

 

However, it is very hard to get accurate information about this -- which is why I highlighted this in my earlier post.

 

Just to check, tonight I googled "PLA VHF radio requirement tidal Thames". The very first thing that comes up is The Tidal Thames, A Guide for Users of Recreational Craft, published by the Port of London Authority. It says you only require the radio if you are longer than 20 metres (65 ft).

 

The next google link gives the information that the rules have changed, and all boats over 13.7 metres (45 ft) now need a radio.

 

But sometimes you don't look past the first link if you think you have found the information you need.

 

I really don't know how well the rule is enforced. When I found out very late that I needed the radio, I took the course, fast tracked the certificate, got the license, and borrowed a radio, because I really did not want to be sent home the other way at Limehouse and I like to play by the rules if I possibly can.

 

At the lock the lockeepers said, "Do you have a radio?" I said "Yes" and that was enough for them. They didn't ask to see it and they didn't ask for any paperwork.

 

Just out of curiousity, in the lock I asked the only other narrowboat locking through with us if they had a radio. "Oh yes" they said, nod nod wink wink and just for good measure they pulled down the lower lid of one eye. From which I took it that they did not have a radio.

[alan_fincher]

I know you have just done it, Alan, but I am pretty sure that the convoy dispensation applies to the Teddington to Brentford / Brentford to Teddington stretch only. I think ALL boats on the Brentford Limehouse stretch (in either direction) now require a VHF on each boat.

Well the Brentford / Teddington section has an exemption for all boats in transit between the GU and non-tidal Thames or vice versa, so the convoy / flotilla thing would never apply there.

 

Strictly, (as the rest of your post implies) only boats over 45 feet need the VHF on the run to or from Limehouse, although why you don't need a radio on a 44 foot narrow boat, but do on a 46 foot one has me completely puzzled.

 

Like you I can't find the accompanied thing quickly on the (poor) PLA web-site, but the normally reliable St Pancras Cruising Club notes say.....

 

New PLA General Directions came into force on 1st September 2006 which require all craft of 13.7m length and over [45ft], including narrowboats, on the Thames Tideway below Brentford to carry a VHF Marine Radio and maintain a listening watch on channel 14. [An exemption is offered to craft taking part in an approved flotilla].

 

I agree that if anyone lies at Limehouse about whether they meet the requirements that they will probably go unchallenged.

 

If something went wrong, i would be interesting to know if your insurers would pay out if you have gone on the river without meeting the requirements though.

[blackrose]

Until this latest update I was under the impression I didn't need VHS, now I do, I'm probably going to have to change plans.

Another issue is the front deck drain holes, in the StPCC notes it says block these up, surely they are there to drain the water (which built up in Alans case) or at 7 " above normal flat water, would they let more in than out??

Lastly, do you recommend filling the front water tank before taking part, does this assist stability and passage?? (it can lower the front end by 3")

 

I don't know why the SPCC would advise blocking your bow well deck scuppers? I certainly wouldn't do that. However, I would keep your bow doors closed and advise anyone going out onto the bow to close the doors after them when they come back.

 

Do you have a stainless steel, plastic or an integral tank? In the case of the latter I wouldn't worry too much about how full it is. In the case of plastic or stainless I'd probably empty it unless it's fixed in place very securely.

 

 

I know you have just done it, Alan, but I am pretty sure that the convoy dispensation applies to the Teddington to Brentford / Brentford to Teddington stretch only. I think ALL boats on the Brentford Limehouse stretch (in either direction) now require a VHF on each boat.

 

As the lead boat with VHF I've taken other boats without radio between Brentford and Limehouse and back. As long as you let the lockkeepers know about your arangements in advance it is permitted. I was also informed I should make London VTS aware of the passage in advance, but on the one occasion when I did do this they said it wasn't necessary and if I wanted to contact them I should just let them know when I am on the tideway.

Edited August 8, 2010 by blackrose