RYA Inland Waterway Helmsman’s Course

[Guest wanted]

If thats how you feel go for it, but really there is no substitute for experience and you cant buy that. Dont expect miracles from a short session with an instructor.

 

Cheers for that,

 

My plan is

 

RYA Helmsmans

 

Boat with a bit more confidence

 

learn from experiance

 

live happily on the waterways of the UK

 

World domination (MWAHAAA!)

[wrigglefingers]

Cheers for that,

 

My plan is

 

RYA Helmsmans

 

Boat with a bit more confidence

 

learn from experiance

 

live happily on the waterways of the UK

 

World domination (MWAHAAA!)

 

Sounds like a plan. And all achieved without an offensive weapon too!

[Guest wanted]

Sounds like a plan. And all achieved without an offensive weapon too!

 

All done with love and woolly mittens!

[wrigglefingers]

All done with love and woolly mittens!

 

I'm spinning the yarn for a pair even as I type; it's a miracle of organisation!

[enigma]

There is a good training centre in Stourport on Severn.

There you can do narrow and broad locks, staircases, river and big locks with lock keepers.

 

Enigma

[NB Alnwick]

Cheers for that,

 

My plan is

 

RYA Helmsmans

 

Boat with a bit more confidence

 

learn from experiance

 

live happily on the waterways of the UK

 

World domination (MWAHAAA!)

 

I would say that you have a sensible plan.

 

Although many on here are quick to rubbish the RYA Inland Waterways Helmsmans Course, I must say that we found it to be extremely helpful in building our confidence and avoiding many of the bad habits and bad practices that we have subsequently noted among, so called, 'experienced boaters'. To those who say 'just take the boat out' - I am sure that we have all met boaters who have been boating for years but take ages negotiating locks and lack many of the attributes that serve to separate the good boaters from the bad. Whilst recognising that a great many have learned to become good boaters from experience alone, appropriate training can only help to speed things along and the RYA Inland Waterways Helmsmans Course is a very good start.

 

We did our training with, and are happy to recommend, this chap:

 

http://www.trentboathandling.co.uk/instructor.php

[Tam & Di]

I would say that you have a sensible plan.

 

Although many on here are quick to rubbish the RYA Inland Waterways Helmsmans Course, I must say that we found it to be extremely helpful in building our confidence and avoiding many of the bad habits and bad practices that we have subsequently noted among, so called, 'experienced boaters'. To those who say 'just take the boat out' - I am sure that we have all met boaters who have been boating for years but take ages negotiating locks and lack many of the attributes that serve to separate the good boaters from the bad. Whilst recognising that a great many have learned to become good boaters from experience alone, appropriate training can only help to speed things along and the RYA Inland Waterways Helmsmans Course is a very good start.

 

I could not agree more. As a school for both RYA ICC and French licensing I have issues with the ICC (Inland) in that people do regard it as evidence that they are "qualified" in some way, whereas it is only an attendance course and there are no criteria for "fail", and this can give people a false sense of security of their abilities. It is true too that the certificate is for life, so a one or two day course with no follow up of cruising to consolidate the information means the training experience will fade.

 

However we get a lot of people coming to us in France who claim several years of boating on UK canals, and many of them have appalling bad habits. These might be of little significance on a light boat on a small canal, but even there they push up the odds on an accident happening sooner or later.

 

So how would you know that the friend who is going to train you actually does know what he is talking about? RYA instructors vary enormously in their knowledge and experience, but they do at least have some basic level of competence and have a set syllabus they are supposed to follow. The training can certainly build up confidence, never a bad thing in itself. So go for it (well, you've said you are anyway, so you don't need my warbling on)

[alan_fincher]

We have encountered some people using a trainer that will travel to you, and train on your own boat, rather than supplying one.

 

If I were to ever consider any training, that would be my strong preference.

 

Whilst that may sound odd, but there are things I can do perfectly well on other peoples boats that I struggle to get right consistently on my own, because of differences in the way they react to certain situations.

 

It would be useful that the boat I could handle best was the one I used most of the time.

 

(As a quick example, too, some of the training outfits seem to use very small boats, which might not give someone the experience they needed in handling something bigger).

[Naughty Cal]

I could not agree more. As a school for both RYA ICC and French licensing I have issues with the ICC (Inland) in that people do regard it as evidence that they are "qualified" in some way, whereas it is only an attendance course and there are no criteria for "fail", and this can give people a false sense of security of their abilities. It is true too that the certificate is for life, so a one or two day course with no follow up of cruising to consolidate the information means the training experience will fade.

 

However we get a lot of people coming to us in France who claim several years of boating on UK canals, and many of them have appalling bad habits. These might be of little significance on a light boat on a small canal, but even there they push up the odds on an accident happening sooner or later.

 

So how would you know that the friend who is going to train you actually does know what he is talking about? RYA instructors vary enormously in their knowledge and experience, but they do at least have some basic level of competence and have a set syllabus they are supposed to follow. The training can certainly build up confidence, never a bad thing in itself. So go for it (well, you've said you are anyway, so you don't need my warbling on)

 

By the same token how do you know that the students on these courses will take in any of the information they have been told?

 

We know people who have been on most of the courses avaliable to them yet still dont have the confidence to take out their boats by themselves. On paper they are more qualified than we are yet in practice they cant use any of the theoretical knowledge they have gained as they dont have the confidence to do so.

 

These courses are not magic, you dont just attend and at the end of it you can steer a boat competently. That only comes with pratice and time and yes mistakes will be made but that is all part of the learning process.

[Guest wanted]

By the same token how do you know that the students on these courses will take in any of the information they have been told?

 

We know people who have been on most of the courses avaliable to them yet still dont have the confidence to take out their boats by themselves. On paper they are more qualified than we are yet in practice they cant use any of the theoretical knowledge they have gained as they dont have the confidence to do so.

 

These courses are not magic, you dont just attend and at the end of it you can steer a boat competently. That only comes with pratice and time and yes mistakes will be made but that is all part of the learning process.

 

Which I don't think anyboy is disbuting, the point is about a nudge in the right direction to then be able to build on, I take Richards point about using our own boat, we will book something similar to ours, but truth be known, we'd quite like a bit of a holiday as well, hence we are doing two days so we are not rushing.

[blackrose]

Which I don't think anyboy is disbuting, the point is about a nudge in the right direction to then be able to build on, I take Richards point about using our own boat, we will book something similar to ours, but truth be known, we'd quite like a bit of a holiday as well, hence we are doing two days so we are not rushing.

 

Not rushing is right... You've been living on that boat for about 2 years!

[Guest wanted]

Not rushing is right... You've been living on that boat for about 2 years!

[Tam & Di]

By the same token how do you know that the students on these courses will take in any of the information they have been told?

 

We know people who have been on most of the courses avaliable to them yet still dont have the confidence to take out their boats by themselves. On paper they are more qualified than we are yet in practice they cant use any of the theoretical knowledge they have gained as they dont have the confidence to do so.

 

You don't. That's the reason I am constantly on at the RYA to develop a second stage of Inland Waters Helmsman's Certificate which would be examined. The existing IWHC is fine for confidence boosting and as an introduction course (which is what it was designed as), but I reckon people in charge of things like community boats should have a higher level of objective assessment.

 

As far as the people on their own boats in a private capacity are concerned it's up to them though, embarrassing as they can be to watch. However not everyone has the supreme natural ability to boat that you obviously have, and if they feel they would benefit from instruction, good on them, even if it does appear to be a waste of time and money from your viewpoint. If they're still rubbish now, what would they be like if they'd not been on a course?

[Natalie Graham]

However we get a lot of people coming to us in France who claim several years of boating on UK canals, and many of them have appalling bad habits.

 

Just because someone picks his nose and eats peas off his knife doesn't make him a bad boater.

[jelunga]

I intend to take do the same later in the year, I will be going to http://www.trboathandling.com

 

I met Terry at Crick boat show and felt very comfortable with him, and he is the one that will be doing the training.

 

On the 2 day course you stop overnight on the boat.

 

Gary

I also intend to do the 2 day with TR for the very same reason

[ditchcrawler]

By the same token how do you know that the students on these courses will take in any of the information they have been told?

 

We know people who have been on most of the courses avaliable to them yet still dont have the confidence to take out their boats by themselves. On paper they are more qualified than we are yet in practice they cant use any of the theoretical knowledge they have gained as they dont have the confidence to do so.

 

These courses are not magic, you dont just attend and at the end of it you can steer a boat competently. That only comes with pratice and time and yes mistakes will be made but that is all part of the learning process.

I did the course with Tam and I can assure you that to get the ticket you will be a competent. It was "His" barge that I was steering into the lock and no way was he going to let anyone do that who he didn't feel was competent to do so with him close by.

I also enjoyed some great food and wine.

I would love to do the course again,just as a holiday.

I would also like to add that I have seen a very near accident through not using ropes in locks in the way prescribed by his other half Di.

[blackrose]

I must have been unlucky then because both courses I've paid for and been on (Inland Helmsman & VHF), have been rubbish.

 

The people running these courses may know their stuff inside out, but I'm afraid some have absolutely no idea how to disseminate that knowledge effectively because they have no teaching background.

 

Surprisingly we still run our universities in the same way in this country!

[luctor et emergo]

You don't. That's the reason I am constantly on at the RYA to develop a second stage of Inland Waters Helmsman's Certificate which would be examined. The existing IWHC is fine for confidence boosting and as an introduction course (which is what it was designed as), but I reckon people in charge of things like community boats should have a higher level of objective assessment.

 

As far as the people on their own boats in a private capacity are concerned it's up to them though, embarrassing as they can be to watch. However not everyone has the supreme natural ability to boat that you obviously have, and if they feel they would benefit from instruction, good on them, even if it does appear to be a waste of time and money from your viewpoint. If they're still rubbish now, what would they be like if they'd not been on a course?

 

 

Are they not meant to qualify for a Boat Master's Licence?

[Naughty Cal]

You don't. That's the reason I am constantly on at the RYA to develop a second stage of Inland Waters Helmsman's Certificate which would be examined. The existing IWHC is fine for confidence boosting and as an introduction course (which is what it was designed as), but I reckon people in charge of things like community boats should have a higher level of objective assessment.

 

As far as the people on their own boats in a private capacity are concerned it's up to them though, embarrassing as they can be to watch. However not everyone has the supreme natural ability to boat that you obviously have, and if they feel they would benefit from instruction, good on them, even if it does appear to be a waste of time and money from your viewpoint. If they're still rubbish now, what would they be like if they'd not been on a course?

 

Equally as rubbish but a few hundred quid better off.

 

Some people take to boating naturally others may not, but going on a course doesnt give you the instant ability or confidence to use a boat on your own. That is something that comes with practise and time.

[Ray T]

"but going on a course doesn't give you the instant ability or confidence to use a boat on your own".

 

Phylis, I am intrigued, you seem quite anti with regard to boating courses, also saying they are no substitute for experience, which is true.

 

I have a RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of competence. To get this qualification I had to do both land and sea instructor guided courses. Without these courses I would not have gained my qualification. I also had to complete 2500 sea miles of these 5 passages of over 60 miles, 2 as skipper plus 2 overnight passages.

 

Nowadays many yacht charter firms on the South coast will not charter a yacht without at least one person on board having a qualification. Coastal Skipper for coast hopping and a Yachmaster for a channel or longer crossing. I am talking Solent to Cherberg not Dover to Calais.

 

You are lucky in having your own boat. Those who charter perhaps not so.

 

Doing both the courses and practical sailing I learnt "a hell of a lot".

 

To me courses are not a waste of time.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Ray T

[rubblequeen]

Can anyone recommend a good instructor/course close to Shardlow Derbs as I want to do it on my own boat (which I have just bought bt not really had a go yet)

Thanks

[Natalie Graham]

"but going on a course doesn't give you the instant ability or confidence to use a boat on your own".

 

Phylis, I am intrigued, you seem quite anti with regard to boating courses, also saying they are no substitute for experience, which is true.

 

I have a RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of competence. To get this qualification I had to do both land and sea instructor guided courses. Without these courses I would not have gained my qualification. I also had to complete 2500 sea miles of these 5 passages of over 60 miles, 2 as skipper plus 2 overnight passages.

 

Nowadays many yacht charter firms on the South coast will not charter a yacht without at least one person on board having a qualification. Coastal Skipper for coast hopping and a Yachmaster for a channel or longer crossing. I am talking Solent to Cherberg not Dover to Calais.

 

You are lucky in having your own boat. Those who charter perhaps not so.

 

Doing both the courses and practical sailing I learnt "a hell of a lot".

 

To me courses are not a waste of time.

 

I think the offshore courses are a very different proposition though aren't they? That is what the RYA courses are about. From what I know of them they are serious qualifications staged at different levels. Your 2500 sea miles including 5 passages over 60 miles 2 as skipper plus 2 overnight passages sounds a bit more demanding than taking part in a fun day out for complete beginners suitable for a 12 year old. There is no way I would ever contemplate taking a boat out to sea without some serious instruction but I would not consider the RYA Inland helmsman's course. Unless canal boating has become seriously more difficult than it was when I first did it I really can't see why people feel the need for these courses. Take your boat out, take things steady until you get used to how it handles and a bit of practice you will soon be every bit as competent as if you take a course. Just what is it about steering a canal boat that you need to be instructed about?

 

The contrast between the requirements of yacht charter companies you speak of and the canal hire boat companies says a lot about the relative difficulties and risks of the two types of boating.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Natalie Graham

[Iain_S]

(snip) but I reckon people in charge of things like community boats should have a higher level of objective assessment.

 

Are they not meant to qualify for a Boat Master's Licence?

 

Only needed if skippering an MCA registered passenger vessel (more than 12 passengers)

 

Iain

[Ray T]

Natalie, the real point I was trying to make is that even doing the RYA Inland Helsmans certificate I learnt a few things despite cruising on NB's for some 10 years.

 

I am always willing to learn.

 

It just seems to me that some rubbish the Inland course for no apparent reason.

 

How many of those who rubbish it have done the course?

[Trix]

Seems to have gone off topic, well down the route that was asked tobe avoided, was always going to happen. However can someone list all the helmsman type courses available ie day course no pass or fail upto say off shore really clever boat person with recognised qualification