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Narrow Boat Trust - where are you?


Roger t' Bodger

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How's the dog's digestion this morning?

 

Richard

 

I've been out along the cut, so far today, trying to raise a few spondolics by selling my book about the Mile Straight in Leicester to passing boaters. But I reckon I missed them all as I didn't start until 10.30 and by then they had all fled through :-( I was amazed by the change at Lime Kiln Locks and Memory Lane Wharf where most of the gasworks and the Leicester College have been reduced to piles of fine rubble. Will anything replace it all?

 

I'm sure the old hound dog will come down later and let loose with a number of those silent smelly ones. Arrrgh! gag choke!

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I've been out along the cut, so far today, trying to raise a few spondolics by selling my book about the Mile Straight in Leicester to passing boaters. But I reckon I missed them all as I didn't start until 10.30 and by then they had all fled through :-( I was amazed by the change at Lime Kiln Locks and Memory Lane Wharf where most of the gasworks and the Leicester College have been reduced to piles of fine rubble. Will anything replace it all?

 

I'm sure the old hound dog will come down later and let loose with a number of those silent smelly ones. Arrrgh! gag choke!

 

cork.jpg

 

Richard

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I never thought you were, nor did I mean to imply it. Sorry if it came across otherwise. I agree with your comments on volunteers. Rather I was commenting on those posts we get from time to time on this thread and others which go along the lines of "I saw this group of volunteers from organisation X and they weren't behaving like experienced boat people at all. They are a bad reflection on the organisation." rather than applauding the organisation for given the inexperienced people to opportunity to learn.

 

When was the last time we read a post on here saying, "I encountered a group of people from The Narrowboat Trust [to take a topical example] who had no idea what they were doing. Well done to the NBT for giving them the opportunity of learning how to do it. I am sure they will soon get the hang of things and I hope they have fun doing so."?

 

 

They really do.... And I take great pleasure in that they can, although I'm not involved on that side these days. As far as formal training is concerned I'm sure another active member on the council can reply to Pete Harrison's enquiry on that matter. I did go on a number of half day courses a few years back and thoroughly enjoyed them as they enriched the experience and increased my skills like splicing and tieing up.

We've had one new inexperienced member on the current trip and she said it was very enjoyable.

 

The dog has just come down - where's that peg?

 

cork.jpg

 

Richard

 

An exploding hound is too horrible to contemplate!

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Just returned from Newbury Waterside Festival, the crew have had a very good day with a huge amount of interest from the locals.

The que to see inside Brightons' cabin and hear about how people lived on and worked the boats was incessant. They actually ran out of membership forms,copies of '' The Steerer ''magazine and received quite a number of small donations. A number of new coal orders were also obtained en route for the next run we do.

 

So all in all, it was well worth the effort to get there.

 

Pete, the training scheme that you and Blossom devised is still being opperated today but we could really do with more instructors,I wish I could persuede the two of you to come back for instance.

I agree with you totally that the RYA Helmsmans course is not enough on its own to let someone loose on a pair of boats and call them qualified, but that is the bit that's required by law as laid down by MCA for loadedboats and we have to comply. It's just as well that they don't insist on us complying with Boatmasters Tiers 1&2 because there is no way that we could.

 

To me, training doesn't begin and end with training days but is on going with, hopefully, experienced Steerers passing on the skills to the less experienced during actual trips, a bit like learning how to pass your driving test, passing it and then learning to drive!

 

Keith

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Well, that's good news about the Newbury Waterside Festival, it doesn't surprise me that the boats are popular because few working boats are geared up to allowing the public on board. These local authority/IWA organised events are just as important to the Trust as the Braunston HNB event, in that you are illuminating the importance and facination of the national waterways to people who might not even realise there was a canal or river in their town.

 

To link in with the volunteer aspect of this thread here's a video from last September showing local Leicester volunteers having a great jolly pulling out the stuff that all boaters hate and dread getting round their props.

http://www.vimeo.com/6793020

It's one of my favourites videos and all I had to do was stand there for an hour making sure that the dogs (not mine) didn't piss on the camera :lol:

Edited by Roger t' Bodger
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Pete, the training scheme that you and Blossom devised is still being opperated today but we could really do with more instructors,I wish I could persuede the two of you to come back for instance.

 

To me, training doesn't begin and end with training days but is on going with, hopefully, experienced Steerers passing on the skills to the less experienced during actual trips, a bit like learning how to pass your driving test, passing it and then learning to drive!

 

Keith

 

I cannot take credit for Mr "Blossom's" steerer training programme as it was all his work. All I did was read through it to confirm it would work, and work it did as I used it to sign off a new steerer on my last N.B.T. Ltd. trip in late September 2006.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to see the day coming when I will be able to rejoin the N.B.T. Ltd. as I do not have (or want) a first aid qualification !

 

As you know I have been involved with 'historic' narrow boats since I was 10 years old and I still learn new things all of the time. As I have got older I have come to understand that tact and diplomacy are just as important as 'getting 'em ahead', as long as these don't slow me down too much - but I have not been on a boat since 2007 anyway.

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It would be interesting to see what would happen if the general public were allowed to come along and put their own engines on preserved lines, to run alongside (well in front of, or behind) the railway societie's kit.

 

I imagine there would be a few more altercations than if it was just weekend rides on the resident trains.

 

Oh! Quick! Quick! A chance to use my Degree ™!

 

On the Stockton and Darlington railway, when it opened in 1825, the company provided the rails only- private individuals ran the trains upon it.

 

It was mostly single-track, with a few passing places- which led to a great deal of arguing and confusion!

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What SH says is the ideal, but dare I say it, a little starry eyed. For one thing, different people have different levels of skills and capabilities, and their own assessment of these might not coincide with others'. It is true that doing things for the satisfaction of doing them is what motivates people to volunteer, but that feeling of satisfaction tends to have diminishing returns. Cleaning a toilet the 100th time is not as satisfying as doing it the first time. Add to that the fact that volunteers often come to be taken for granted, and that exacerbates the process, leading to resentment as well as diminished satisfaction. Then there are the personality clashes. And, a big factor, the frustration of operating within an organisation that is run by a committee, so any little job takes months to be approved, let alone carried out.

 

A voluntary organisation is not analogous to an employment situation, for this and a range of other reasons. In employment, people are being compensated for giving up their time. In volunteering the activity must provide the reward in itself. This means that it must provide a far higher level of reward. If it does, then people will perform well as SH notes, but it is very difficult to sustain that high level of reward. In employment people are usually dependent on the employer (they don't want to lose their jobs and wages) so they are willing to be told what to do, how to do a job, what training to undertake and so on. In voluntary organisations the boot is on the other foot: the organisation is dependent on the volunteer. So they will go out of their way not to alienate them, no matter how pig headed or incompetent they are. And the organisation has no sanction to make them improve. Ultimately, they can tell them to go away, but then they have lost another volunteer.

 

In short, running a voluntary organisation is very hard work, but working for one isn't always non stop rewards either. There's a lot of responsibility without power, and a lot of frustration, on both sides. The idea that it's the panacea for all society's woes is frighetning.

Not all volunteers have the same abilities and aims, thank goodness. On a railway, the height of responsibility and excitement for some volunteers is wearing a Porter's uniform and clipping tickets. It's not my cup of tea but good luck to them, if that's what they want to do. The biggest challenge for managers of voluntary organisations is finding the right niche for people when they join.

 

Another trick is to balance out the bad jobs with good ones - a carrot and stick approach to volunteering. So if you are required to do something onerous the pay off is being entitled to do something particularly rewarding afterwards. It's interesting that the one area of most preserved railways where paid staff dominate is normally food sales - presumably kitchen and bar work doesn't have enough good jobs to balance out the undesirable ones?

 

Volunteers are generally prepared to be told what to do, what training they need etc. because they want to progress. Also, don't forget the importance of peer pressure. No-one wants to let their mates down, particularly when you know those mates have been working hard, and not getting paid for it.

 

I'm not convinced that all volunteers desire public recognition for their work, though obviously some do. For me, knowing that I've done something well, and lived up to my potential, is enough. Whether anyone else notices is irrelevant. You know in your own head when you've done something worthwhile.

 

You can sack volunteers. One nuisance volunteer can undo the work of 10 good staff, so if they are genuinely a problem then you're actually gaining, not losing, if they go. I'm not quite sure how my opinions can be "starrry eyed" when I'm speaking from direct experience. However I do agree that switched-on management is key, and when it comes to BW that's hardly been their signature style so far, has it?

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Not all volunteers have the same abilities and aims, thank goodness. On a railway, the height of responsibility and excitement for some volunteers is wearing a Porter's uniform and clipping tickets. It's not my cup of tea but good luck to them, if that's what they want to do. The biggest challenge for managers of voluntary organisations is finding the right niche for people when they join.

 

Another trick is to balance out the bad jobs with good ones - a carrot and stick approach to volunteering. So if you are required to do something onerous the pay off is being entitled to do something particularly rewarding afterwards. It's interesting that the one area of most preserved railways where paid staff dominate is normally food sales - presumably kitchen and bar work doesn't have enough good jobs to balance out the undesirable ones?

 

Volunteers are generally prepared to be told what to do, what training they need etc. because they want to progress. Also, don't forget the importance of peer pressure. No-one wants to let their mates down, particularly when you know those mates have been working hard, and not getting paid for it.

 

I'm not convinced that all volunteers desire public recognition for their work, though obviously some do. For me, knowing that I've done something well, and lived up to my potential, is enough. Whether anyone else notices is irrelevant. You know in your own head when you've done something worthwhile.

 

You can sack volunteers. One nuisance volunteer can undo the work of 10 good staff, so if they are genuinely a problem then you're actually gaining, not losing, if they go. I'm not quite sure how my opinions can be "starrry eyed" when I'm speaking from direct experience. However I do agree that switched-on management is key, and when it comes to BW that's hardly been their signature style so far, has it?

 

All sound thoughts there. SH

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When a pair of working boats passes through locks at a honeypot site like Hilmorton, it is inevitable that you will get people off the bank coming to have a look - ranging from those who have come specifically to meet the boats, to other boaters, to casual towpath walkers. It doesn't supriise me in the least that such people will some times start talking to the crew or pushing on a balance beam. But that hardly makes them "involved in moving the boat with the consent of the steerer". What else is the steerer supposed to do? Scream and shout at them not to touch and to go away?

 

No, he should politely ask them not to touch.

 

In any case, as I have already indicated, several of these people were actually on board the boats at other times during the journey, and were issuing instructions to other boaters indicating that they were "with" the NBT boats.

 

If NBT habitually find that a dozen people appear out of nowhere armed with windlasses when they arrive at a lock, then their crewing problems are solved!

 

 

You may often *get* high standards of workmanship from volunteers. But the truth is you can't *demand* anything from them.

 

Actually, you can.

 

It does mean that some may choose to walk away, but insisting that a minimum standard is required is perfectly fine.

 

 

An employer can invoke sanctions up to dismissal to manage an employees conduct, I don't believe a volunteer organisation can do the same....

 

Well, yes they can.

 

If somebody volunteers for a preserved railway, one would imagine that they are very enthusiastic about preserved railways, and that helping out is important to them. I should imagine that being told that they are no longer allowed todo so would be a blow to them.

 

 

If I work for an employer and I mess up, the ultimate sanction they can enforce is taking away my livelihood......

 

If I do the same for an organisation I volunteer for.............

 

They take away your leisure activity.

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I met the NBT boats for the first time on friday morning on their way to the Newbury Water Festival, nice boats and nice chatty crew. They were stuck behing the swing bridge at Aldermaston (out of action for a change :lol: ) I was moored near.

 

It was a pleasure to spend/waste an hour chatting :lol:

 

A lovely pair too :lol: especially the motor :lol:

 

Paul

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Just returned from Newbury Waterside Festival, the crew have had a very good day with a huge amount of interest from the locals.

The que to see inside Brightons' cabin and hear about how people lived on and worked the boats was incessant. They actually ran out of membership forms,copies of '' The Steerer ''magazine and received quite a number of small donations. A number of new coal orders were also obtained en route for the next run we do.

 

So all in all, it was well worth the effort to get there.

 

Pete, the training scheme that you and Blossom devised is still being opperated today but we could really do with more instructors,I wish I could persuede the two of you to come back for instance.

I agree with you totally that the RYA Helmsmans course is not enough on its own to let someone loose on a pair of boats and call them qualified, but that is the bit that's required by law as laid down by MCA for loadedboats and we have to comply. It's just as well that they don't insist on us complying with Boatmasters Tiers 1&2 because there is no way that we could.

 

To me, training doesn't begin and end with training days but is on going with, hopefully, experienced Steerers passing on the skills to the less experienced during actual trips, a bit like learning how to pass your driving test, passing it and then learning to drive!

 

Keith

 

We were delighted to have Nuneaton & Brighton at the Festival this weekend. The crew worked hard to help the public see the boats. Meridian TV filmed on the boats and BBC Berkshire was fascinated when I told them we had 35 tons of coal for sale! We had thousands of visitors to Festival and managed to get good media coverage of our campaign messages.

 

My thanks to all of the crew - especially Sheena, Britain's most glamorous coalman (lady)!

 

Rob Dean

Festival Director

Newbury Waterways Festival

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If somebody volunteers for a preserved railway, one would imagine that they are very enthusiastic about preserved railways, and that helping out is important to them. I should imagine that being told that they are no longer allowed todo so would be a blow to them.

 

They take away your leisure activity.

 

Sorry Dave - much less impact - they might be a tad disappointed or even gutted - at losing the opportunity to volunteer for a particular organisation.

 

This in no way compares to having your livelihood taken away....

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Sorry Dave - much less impact - they might be a tad disappointed or even gutted - at losing the opportunity to volunteer for a particular organisation.

 

This in no way compares to having your livelihood taken away....

How is that relevant, though?

 

The key question is whether the threat of disciplinary action, which could ultimately involve a lifelong ban, is enough to stop people from serious misbehaviour.

 

It generally is. And on the rare occasion when it isn't, they get banned.

 

A livelihood is important because it supports home and family, but that doesn't automatically make it fun. Nor does it automatically make paid employment a positive influence on one's social life, self esteem or mental health. Volunteering, on the other hand, is all about job satisfaction, personal development, socializing, teamwork, creativity, problem-solving, responsibility and doing things because they are worth doing for their own sake, not because you want to get paid.

 

If I were sacked tomorrow, I'd only be gutted because I could no longer afford to go boating or go firing steam engines. Being banned from doing something I love would have exactly the same effect, but without the intermediate stage involving money.

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Sorry Dave - much less impact - they might be a tad disappointed or even gutted - at losing the opportunity to volunteer for a particular organisation.

 

This in no way compares to having your livelihood taken away....

 

It does if you have invested heart and soul in something for years.

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How is that relevant, though?

 

But of course it's relevant, but perhaps to only somebody who depends on a financial income to put food in the mouths of themselves and those that he or she is responsible for.

 

If you have an alternative way of doing this other than 'earned income' then feel free volunteer away... I suspect most folk don't have this luxury.

 

It does if you have invested heart and soul in something for years.

 

But how does 'investing your heart and soul' into something pay the bills....

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But of course it's relevant, but perhaps to only somebody who depends on a financial income to put food in the mouths of themselves and those that he or she is responsible for.

 

If you have an alternative way of doing this other than 'earned income' then feel free volunteer away... I suspect most folk don't have this luxury.

 

 

 

But how does 'investing your heart and soul' into something pay the bills....

 

It doesn't.

 

Clearly you don't "get it", and that is no criticism of you, it just means that it lies outwith your life experience to date.

 

Personally, losing the job would be a PITA, but I would get another job, so it isn't the end of the world. There are other things that I do voluntarily that I would be far more upset if they were taken away from me.

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But of course it's relevant, but perhaps to only somebody who depends on a financial income to put food in the mouths of themselves and those that he or she is responsible for.

 

If you have an alternative way of doing this other than 'earned income' then feel free volunteer away... I suspect most folk don't have this luxury.

 

 

 

But how does 'investing your heart and soul' into something pay the bills....

It doesn't pay the bills. That's the bit that's irrelevant. Whether volunteering pays the bills or not (which obviously it doesn't) makes absolutely no difference to anything that's been discussed here. I don't see why you are making that comparison when it doesn't prove anything or add anything to the debate. The two are not directly related, so I don't see what your point is.

 

I do a 39 hour paid week travelling all over the country, plus overtime, and then at weekends and occasionally in the week I go volunteering, too. For entirely separate reasons. One pays the bills, the other I do because I really want to. So what's your point?

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Personally, losing the job would be a PITA, but I would get another job, so it isn't the end of the world.

 

Surely it depends how you lose it, and if the income level was comparable with your current level...

 

Most diligent employers seek and authorise references from the most recent employer including reason for leaving, and they explore any apparent 'gaps' in employment too. Losing your employment through misconduct could therefore leave you exposed to a difficulty in securing another job... this is the crux of my point.

 

Are volunteer organisations as diligent?? - Unless they are involved with the care of vulnerable adults or children I suspect not - which makes the management of the conduct of those who volunteer so much harder....

 

 

It doesn't pay the bills. That's the bit that's irrelevant. Whether volunteering pays the bills or not (which obviously it doesn't) makes absolutely no difference to anything that's been discussed here. I don't see why you are making that comparison when it doesn't prove anything or add anything to the debate. The two are not directly related, so I don't see what your point is.

 

I do a 39 hour paid week travelling all over the country, plus overtime, and then at weekends and occasionally in the week I go volunteering, too. For entirely separate reasons. One pays the bills, the other I do because I really want to. So what's your point?

 

I fear you haven't read all the posts in here other wise you would realise whether paying the bills or not is indeed fully relevant to anything discussed in here.

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Surely it depends how you lose it, and if the income level was comparable with your current level...

 

Most diligent employers seek and authorise references from the most recent employer including reason for leaving, and they explore any apparent 'gaps' in employment too. Losing your employment through misconduct could therefore leave you exposed to a difficulty in securing another job... this is the crux of my point.

 

Most sensible employers habitually don't give such references, because of the legal nightmare that they would open up.

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I fear you haven't read all the posts in here other wise you would realise whether paying the bills or not is indeed fully relevant to anything discussed in here.

 

I have read all of the posts here, and I do 'realise' whether paying the bills or not is indeed relevant. As far as I can see it isn't. Care to enlighten me?

 

You are not comparing like for like, but seem to be assuming that people who work for money do so for exactly the same reasons as those people work for pleasure. That simply isn't true. At the same time you seem to be assuming that paid employment and volunteering are somehow mutually exclusive, and that isn't true either.

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Most sensible employers habitually don't give such references, because of the legal nightmare that they would open up.

 

My understanding is that if a reference is factual then there is no problem.

 

Indeed SOME (not necessarily sensible) shy away from giving truthful references for fear of litigation, but as I say if it's factual no problem.

 

Where some employers let themselves down it is with a lack of documentary evidence of either poor performance and evidence of the opportunity for the employee to improve or documentary evidence of misconduct. This results in the inability to back up any reference with fact.

 

 

 

I have read all of the posts here, and I do 'realise' whether paying the bills or not is indeed relevant. As far as I can see it isn't. Care to enlighten me?

 

Sorry no - because if you really had you wouldn't be asking....

Edited by NB No Deadlines
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as an employer, I find it very easy to give an honest reference for someone who has been dishonest, underhand or some other misconduct issue, persistent lateness or lots of single sick days. When the questions are asked, i answer all questions in detail until the question relevant to their removal is reached,then I just write, sorry, I will not answer that question.

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My understanding is that if a reference is factual then there is no problem.

 

Indeed SOME (not necessarily sensible) shy away from giving truthful references for fear of litigation, but as I say if it's factual no problem.

 

Where some employers let themselves down it is with a lack of documentary evidence of either poor performance and evidence of the opportunity for the employee to improve or documentary evidence of misconduct.

 

the problem is that a past employer has a duty to both the ex-employee and to the prospective new employer. As a result many employers, including my own, restrict their references to the absolutely unambiguously factual. Dates of employment, office employed at and job title.

 

If they step away from that even for "safe" cases, there is a danger of people reading between the lines when they say nothing in a tricky case.

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