'DIS' markers

[NB Alnwick]

There are cast iron posts with "DIS" in raised letters located about a hundred yards either side of most locks on the Oxford Canal. I think I know but can anyone confirm their purpose?

[Hairy-Neil]

There are cast iron posts with "DIS" in raised letters located about a hundred yards either side of most locks on the Oxford Canal. I think I know but can anyone confirm their purpose?

 

I understand they gave 'right of way' to whichever boat passed them first if boats were aproaching from both directions

[NB Alnwick]

I understand they gave 'right of way' to whichever boat passed them first if boats were aproaching from both directions

 

Now that is what I understood but I have recently realised that there are many locations where the two posts are not visible from each other or even visible from the lock - so how would a boat's crew know know they were 'first past the post'?

[Albion]

Now that is what I understood but I have recently realised that there are many locations where the two posts are not visible from each other or even visible from the lock - so how would a boat's crew know know they were 'first past the post'?

 

The story that I heard was that the boatmen, in the days of horses, would crack their whips as they passed the posts and that was the signal that one or the other had right of way. Of course it could just be one of those tales.

Roger

[fuzzyduck]

You haven't seen the ones just a few 100 yards away marked "DAT"?

[Keeping Up]

The story that I heard was that the boatmen, in the days of horses, would crack their whips as they passed the posts and that was the signal that one or the other had right of way. Of course it could just be one of those tales.

Roger

I'd heard that too.

 

The slight variation that I also heard was that a lock-wheeler was not permitted to turn a lock around against a boat that had passed the marker, and it was his responsibility to check first (by looking through a bridge or round a corner if necessary). Whether or not he did is another matter (as in "Yes of course I checked and you were just a few feet short of it, mate" )

[alan_fincher]

I've always understood these to be the explanations.

 

Down here they used to actually say "lock distance",(most have gone walkies, now, though).

 

However I have never been able to really swallow the explanation, because even assuming you can hear a whip-crack from hundreds of yards away, if one boat passing a "lock distance" in one direction can't actually see the one doing it in the other, (perhaps because of bridges and/or bends), then how the f**k, do you prove that the other boat actually cracked it's whip at the point it claimed to be at.

 

Anyway boats invariably had a wheeler ahead anyway,so a lock was often being turned, (if required), long before the wheeler's boats would have been passing the "lock distance" sign.

 

I have alternatively heard it stated that if two boats were racing each other in the same direction towards an already prepared lock, that the one reaching the lock distance first, (maybe just managing an overtaking), got the lock.

 

That still sounds bizarre, but almost less so to me than the "standard" explanation.

 

If it was for boats in opposite directions, was it then accepted practice to turn a lock against boats coming the other way, even if they might arrive there only seconds later ? As water supplies were often a very major issue, even that sounds wrong.

 

Anybody know definitively ?

[DHutch]

The slight variation that I also heard was that a lock-wheeler was not permitted to turn a lock around against a boat that had passed the marker, and it was his responsibility to check first (by looking through a bridge or round a corner if necessary). Whether or not he did is another matter (as in "Yes of course I checked and you were just a few feet short of it, mate" )

That what ive heard.

- Hence you only need to be able to see the post from the lock, notthe other post.

[Guest wanted]

You haven't seen the ones just a few 100 yards away marked "DAT"?

 

Beat me to it!

[mayalld]

I've always understood these to be the explanations.

 

Down here they used to actually say "lock distance",(most have gone walkies, now, though).

 

However I have never been able to really swallow the explanation, because even assuming you can hear a whip-crack from hundreds of yards away, if one boat passing a "lock distance" in one direction can't actually see the one doing it in the other, (perhaps because of bridges and/or bends), then how the f**k, do you prove that the other boat actually cracked it's whip at the point it claimed to be at.

 

Anyway boats invariably had a wheeler ahead anyway,so a lock was often being turned, (if required), long before the wheeler's boats would have been passing the "lock distance" sign.

 

I have alternatively heard it stated that if two boats were racing each other in the same direction towards an already prepared lock, that the one reaching the lock distance first, (maybe just managing an overtaking), got the lock.

 

That still sounds bizarre, but almost less so to me than the "standard" explanation.

 

If it was for boats in opposite directions, was it then accepted practice to turn a lock against boats coming the other way, even if they might arrive there only seconds later ? As water supplies were often a very major issue, even that sounds wrong.

 

Anybody know definitively ?

 

Everything points towards them being for the purpose outlined.

 

Once you have passed the DIS post, a lock shouldn't be turned against you. If you are outside the DIS post, then another boat that is actually at the lock can turn the lock for themselves.

[alan_fincher]

That what ive heard.

- Hence you only need to be able to see the post from the lock, not the other post.

That makes a lot more sense, but there definitely used to be ones in our immediate neighbourhood where a post was positioned where it could never have been seen from a lock, or the lock seen from a boat near the post, (as there was a bridge on a bend in the intervening stretch).

 

Perhaps they still just went through the motions of where to position the post, because it was decreed every lock must have them?

[rallyfan]

Now that is what I understood but I have recently realised that there are many locations where the two posts are not visible from each other or even visible from the lock - so how would a boat's crew know know they were 'first past the post'?

 

Quick call to their mobile I expect

Edited December 9, 2009 by rallyfan

[Proper Job]

Another explanation that I heard was that they were to warn a boatman that a lock was a certain distance away so that they could start slowing down for the lock? Although it would seem unlikely as most boatmen would know the stretch of canal and that there was a lock round the corner.

 

Why they were put along straight sections I wouldn't know. Unless as Alan says "they still just went through the motions of where to position the post, because it was decreed every lock must have them"

[magnetman]

I think they are overtaking prohibition markers.

 

If you are going towards a lock and there is a boat very close behind you, the DIS marker is an indicator showing the point at which that boat is no longer allowed to overtake you.

 

I've never quite worked out if they are actually always the same distance from locks of if they vary according to the lay of the land and canal.

[Chris J W]

Perhaps it's where the modern street-talk "Hay! You dissin' me, bro!?" comes from?

 

[Pluto]

I've always understood these to be the explanations.

 

Down here they used to actually say "lock distance",(most have gone walkies, now, though).

 

However I have never been able to really swallow the explanation, because even assuming you can hear a whip-crack from hundreds of yards away, if one boat passing a "lock distance" in one direction can't actually see the one doing it in the other, (perhaps because of bridges and/or bends), then how the f**k, do you prove that the other boat actually cracked it's whip at the point it claimed to be at.

 

Anyway boats invariably had a wheeler ahead anyway,so a lock was often being turned, (if required), long before the wheeler's boats would have been passing the "lock distance" sign.

 

I have alternatively heard it stated that if two boats were racing each other in the same direction towards an already prepared lock, that the one reaching the lock distance first, (maybe just managing an overtaking), got the lock.

 

That still sounds bizarre, but almost less so to me than the "standard" explanation.

 

If it was for boats in opposite directions, was it then accepted practice to turn a lock against boats coming the other way, even if they might arrive there only seconds later ? As water supplies were often a very major issue, even that sounds wrong.

 

Anybody know definitively ?

On the L&LC they had wooden posts, one still surviving at the top of the 5-rise. The reason for them is further confused by some boats, such as flyboats, having precedence at locks, certainly until 1921 when the canal company stopped carrying. It has been suggested to me that there was a pecking order for priority, depending upon what boats were carrying - manure and night soil came just ahead of empty boats.

[alan_fincher]

Another explanation that I heard was that they were to warn a boatman that a lock was a certain distance away so that they could start slowing down for the lock? Although it would seem unlikely as most boatmen would know the stretch of canal and that there was a lock round the corner.

That seems unlikely down here, as the distances from the lock, when many were still in-situ, were just to great.

 

A horse-boat that took the tow off when passing the marker would not even have made it half way to the lock before stopping completely.

 

And, as you say, any boatman worth his salt new exactly where the locks and bridges were, anyway.

[sharpness]

Perhaps they still just went through the motions of where to position the post, because it was decreed every lock must have them?

 

Sounds like a lot of square bollards to me.

 

Steve

[journeyperson]

You haven't seen the ones just a few 100 yards away marked "DAT"?

 

And on the River Dee there are "UDDER" markers too. Always in the same sequence; Dis, Dat and Dee Udder.

[CanalWalker]

how the f**k, do you prove that the other boat actually cracked it's whip at the point it claimed to be at.

 

by having a punch up, if you go by the accounts of bargemen.

 

I have a read an account of youths hiding by a bridge and cracking a whip to piss off approaching barges.

Edited December 10, 2009 by CanalWalker

[WJM]

I have looked at a lot of these posts, their position and distance from the lock, and considered the suggested possibilities. They must be for establishing claim to a prepared lock. The wheeler of one boat could not turn a lock around if the boat coming the opposite way had passed the marker. Given that this is still something that happens today, I can see that the working boatmen needed some system. I have often had to give a blast on the horn as I approached a prepared lock and seen the gates beginning to swing shut.

[mayalld]

I have looked at a lot of these posts, their position and distance from the lock, and considered the suggested possibilities. They must be for establishing claim to a prepared lock. The wheeler of one boat could not turn a lock around if the boat coming the opposite way had passed the marker. Given that this is still something that happens today, I can see that the working boatmen needed some system. I have often had to give a blast on the horn as I approached a prepared lock and seen the gates beginning to swing shut.

 

And then arrived at the lock to find that they turned the lock in any case?

 

And they still claimed they hadn't seen you?

[alan_fincher]

And then arrived at the lock to find that they turned the lock in any case?

 

And they still claimed they hadn't seen you?

No, they simply claimed that they had cracked their whip at the appropriate marker, and WJM must not have heard them......

[mayalld]

No, they simply claimed that they had cracked their whip at the appropriate marker, and WJM must not have heard them......

 

note to self:

 

add whip to equipment, to deal with those who steal locks...

[CanalWalker]

And then arrived at the lock to find that they turned the lock in any case?

 

And they still claimed they hadn't seen you?

 

 

They had a punch up and the winner got the lock.