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How do I find a good boat builder?


Lady Muck

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Many current canal boat fitterouterers maybe very good carpenters and wood workers but many don't seem to understand boat requirements. They tend to box and panel in completely, important things that need proper access, ''never to be got at again'' without major demolition. Often don't fit a floor hatch to check the cabin bilge. Stuffing calorifiers, batteries and stuff in a cruiser stern narrowboats engine compartment which means you need to be a double jointed dwarf, made of rubber to try and work around the engine and stern gear. We have a few modern boats like this here, can be murder to work on when certain things goes wrong.

Edited by bizzard
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  • 2 months later...
On 23/01/2017 at 11:51, bizzard said:

Many current canal boat fitterouterers maybe very good carpenters and wood workers but many don't seem to understand boat requirements. They tend to box and panel in completely, important things that need proper access, ''never to be got at again'' without major demolition. Often don't fit a floor hatch to check the cabin bilge. Stuffing calorifiers, batteries and stuff in a cruiser stern narrowboats engine compartment which means you need to be a double jointed dwarf, made of rubber to try and work around the engine and stern gear. We have a few modern boats like this here, can be murder to work on when certain things goes wrong.

You are right Bizz I had to move stuff on my boat when I had it stretched everything now can be got at easy you know it makes sense

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3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You are right Bizz I had to move stuff on my boat when I had it stretched everything now can be got at easy you know it makes sense

The very first thing I had done on our boat when we bought her was to improve battery access. They were hidden beneath the counter in a corner with short leads that meant they couldn't even be slid out. 

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  • 5 weeks later...

I am new to canal boats and am looking at a wide beam boat company/broker based at mercia marina called new and used boats and was hoping to find out if anybody knows who makes these boats and are they a reputable or budget boat makers?

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New & Used Boat Co seem to be held in pretty high regard here but I have no personal experience with them. Someone will no doubt be along shortly who knows them well. 

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27 minutes ago, WotEver said:

New & Used Boat Co seem to be held in pretty high regard here but I have no personal experience with them. Someone will no doubt be along shortly who knows them well. 

It won't be me, but I'll mention what I do know. They were originally linked to Liverpool Boats and used their shells; now I think (though I am not sure) that they have their shells made in Poland, which is generally seen as an indication of solid quality.

They have been going for 15 years which, in a world where new boatbuilders/fitters regularly burst on to the scene with a flourish of trumpets, only to limp away and die in a dark corner a couple of years later, must say something positive about them.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

It won't be me, but I'll mention what I do know. They were originally linked to Liverpool Boats and used their shells; now I think (though I am not sure) that they have their shells made in Poland, which is generally seen as an indication of solid quality.

They have been going for 15 years which, in a world where new boatbuilders/fitters regularly burst on to the scene with a flourish of trumpets, only to limp away and die in a dark corner a couple of years later, must say something positive about them.

It depends which of their ranges you go for. AIUI, the Aqualines are made in Poland and seem to have a good rep. Some of the others are made by Collingwoods, successors to Liverpool Boats. Both satisfied and dissatisfied customers of LB/Collingwoods have posted on here in the past.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all

Maiden post!

It seems the biggest difficulty when trying to source a new quality shell build, is getting the builders to give you a quote - or even an indication of price! Most of the craftsman boat-builders are very, very good at persuading steel into glorious shapes. But they are bloody useless at writing emails!

Be prepared to pick up the phone and speak to them, then write down their comments/prices. When you have your shortlist, go round and see them and look at their work. 

A lot seems to depend on whether you want an 'off the peg' or bespoke design. If you want something a bit unique, your need to find a builder who will interpret your ideas and turn them into reality. As well as being prepared to add flair and ideas into the mix.

It is worth making the effort. You're going to have to live with the end result.

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On 08/07/2017 at 22:31, Ampen Spekersohn said:

Hi all

Maiden post!

It seems the biggest difficulty when trying to source a new quality shell build, is getting the builders to give you a quote - or even an indication of price! Most of the craftsman boat-builders are very, very good at persuading steel into glorious shapes. But they are bloody useless at writing emails!

Be prepared to pick up the phone and speak to them, then write down their comments/prices. When you have your shortlist, go round and see them and look at their work. 

A lot seems to depend on whether you want an 'off the peg' or bespoke design. If you want something a bit unique, your need to find a builder who will interpret your ideas and turn them into reality. As well as being prepared to add flair and ideas into the mix.

It is worth making the effort. You're going to have to live with the end result.

 

Welcome to the forum!

I rather disagree with your first suggestion. My advice is get off your butt and visit builders personally rather than emailing for quotes. I suspect good builders get five or ten casually sent emails a day requesting quotes and have learned that time spent drafting individual responses is by and large wasted effort. So email enquiries are probably generally ignored. Show a bit of commitment by turning up in person and you'll be treated more seriously. 

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Thank you.

Fair comment, Mike. But when you live in darkest Norfolk, it's a hell of a long way from anywhere boatbuilder-ish! Trying to fit in visits to potential builders, who may/may not have good example builds in progress, is difficult and very time consuming.

But commissioning a new hull is a pretty big decision. So as you say, worth doing a few hard yards.

Next big design consideration is the toilet... pump out~compost~incinerator! May seem a tad trivial at this stage, but it's a question of designing-in tanks, etc. I'm hoping to have ample 230V power, so incinerator is on the radar.

Then the engine... at the moment, the jury is out on either a 3LW or a lower-cost JP3M

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JP3M without doubt. 3LW are pretty dull engines and common as muck. There isn't even a flywheel to watch going round. A Kelvin K2 or J3 would be an even better choice. 

And I suggest having both types of bog. If the pumpout is full you can use the cassette. And, vice versa obviously!

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8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

JP3M without doubt. 3LW are pretty dull engines and common as muck. There isn't even a flywheel to watch going round. A Kelvin K2 or J3 would be an even better choice. 

And I suggest having both types of bog. If the pumpout is full you can use the cassette. And, vice versa obviously!

Firstly welcome Ampen Spekersohn. My your name causes issues for my spellchecker. Hopefully it has left it unmangled when I post this. 

MtB's suggestion regarding having both toilets only works if you remember to empty them. ;)

Unless your proposed boat is to have a built-in diesel generator, I would strongly advise against any large ac electrical loads, such as incinerator toilets, induction hobs etc. It will almost certainly lead to battery related problems unless you can run your engine whilst using them.

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9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And I suggest having both types of bog. If the pumpout is full you can use the cassette. And, vice versa obviously!

Not sure that helps? A disorganised person could easily allow both to fill up. With a cassette loo, extra cassettes give the same option/s :)

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On 09/07/2017 at 10:35, Richard10002 said:

Not sure that helps? A disorganised person could easily allow both to fill up. With a cassette loo, extra cassettes give the same option/s :)

 

True,

A person that disorganised isn't really cut out to live on a boat though. The drawbacks of each type of bog are mitigated by having the other type on board which is why I suggested it. There are times when even I wonder about getting a pumpout!

Oh but then I remember when I did a pumpout on a friend's boat and I come back to my senses...

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When I drove a fully expensed companycar travelled lots of miles, I found it a great inconvenience to stop to get fuel. Always leaving it to the last minute causing stress that I may run out.

Now I have a boat with a pump out and often leave it as it's not completely full when we pass a pumpout facility. We find ourselves having to get the porta potti out as the tank is full and there's no pumpout machine nearby. We are sat, in the wilderness waiting for Fenny Compton to open on Tuesday. 

 

Habits die hard.

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25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

C'mon, you're just making excuses to spend two whole days in The Wharf pub aren't you!

Nope, for once you're wrong. We are three miles from Fenny staring at the big pylon in a field. Wishing my life away. 

Not sure if I'll get shore leave to visit The Wharf anyway,as SHE is on a drive to make me slim and handsome again. She on a loser though, I'm big boned, and am still handsome.

May be meeting with Mr Athy on Thursday/Friday in  Cropredy at a watering hole. Anyone else interested in a drinky poos?

is this off topic?

Edited by Nightwatch
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On 09/07/2017 at 11:21, Nightwatch said:

Nope, for once you're wrong. We are three miles from Fenny staring at the big pylon in a field. Wishing my life away. 

 

Oh that's sad. Time to get out your Rose Wild Flower Key and start identifying all the wonderful flora out now. OR why not cruise up to Fenny anyway? It's only three miles and a lovely trip. 

Tell her you need to get started on a beer only diet. You can lose three days easily on that.

Never mind about meeting Mr Athy, I'm sure you'll get through it. I've successfully survived the experience several times now...

 

:D

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Oh! No, you're joking!

No, he wasn't. Had he been,I wouldn't have mentioned it at the time. Maybe,just to admire it. 

You've got me into trouble now.

Mr Athy,if you're reading this, I would very much like to see you 'Trojan' jumper.

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1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

When I drove a fully expensed companycar travelled lots of miles, I found it a great inconvenience to stop to get fuel. Always leaving it to the last minute causing stress that I may run out.

Now I have a boat with a pump out and often leave it as it's not completely full when we pass a pumpout facility. We find ourselves having to get the porta potti out as the tank is full and there's no pumpout machine nearby. We are sat, in the wilderness waiting for Fenny Compton to open on Tuesday. 

 

Habits die hard.

Nightwatch, I completely empathise with this. I think pump-outs work OK when you have a holiday boat which returns to base at the end of a week/fortnight. But when you have to actively seek out a facility (which is conveniently open), get onto the berth, pay for it, etc, it can become a pain. Hence leaving it till the last minute. 

Also, let's consider the issues of installing a pump-out. A decent capacity is going to need a tank of 150 gallons or more. That's around 700Kg of sewage. Now, unless you can design in a tank which sits on the boat centreline, it's going to cause quite a list as it fills. I think that space could be better used.

Pump-out costs: charges are heading up towards £20 a go now. Then you have to add the cost of Blue to prevent it stinking. Macerator toilets are OK, but they are susceptible to getting blocked and will need repairing sometimes. Nice job!

Then there's the 'iced-in' scenario.

Compost toilets: some people rave about them, but they are far better suited to an off-grid land based property, because of the need to fully compost the poo, which can take 6 months. I don't really want my well deck full of bins of $hit.

Which brings me to the incinerator toilet. The one downside is they take a lot of power. Typically around 2KWh to deal with the morning's activities. Which would be a lot to provide via batteries/inverter, but I am planning a 7.5KVA 230V alternator connected to a DSR regulator. I will also have a 1KW immersion heater to help load up the engine. The alternator will also drive a combi charger/inverter, which will deliver 100A @ 12V. So it might be a question of running the engine for an hour in the morning, but it will charge the batteries, heat the water, vaporise the poo and run the toaster. The difference in fuel cost of adding a 3-4KW load to a 30+HP engine, is going to be minimal.

Think about it - no cassettes to empty. No pump-outs to pay for. No pump-out tank. No buckets of fermenting poo. No situation where you have no toilet capacity left. The tree-huggers might not approve, but I think the system has a lot of merit. My only concern is what the exhaust from toilet might smell like. I think I'll keep it well away from the steerer's position!

12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

JP3M without doubt. 3LW are pretty dull engines and common as muck. There isn't even a flywheel to watch going round. A Kelvin K2 or J3 would be an even better choice. 

And I suggest having both types of bog. If the pumpout is full you can use the cassette. And, vice versa obviously!

Which one sounds nicest though?

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