How do I find a good boat builder?

[Lady Muck]

This thread is for all of you boaters out there who have commissioned a new boat to be built to pass on your advice to those who are considering doing the same.

 

It is not for naming and shaming boat builders any posts of this nature will be edited or removed- if you want to do that, we'd prefer you held the risk and started your own blog or site, which we know some boaters have done and we wish them well.

 

It is more of a general advice thread - what did you do right? What did you do wrong? How can you protect yourself from cowboys.

 

Over to you....

[dor]

When my sailaway was being built I turned up unannounced two or three times a week and took regular photos, starting with the build number welded into the baseplate.

 

If the builder doesn't want you just turning up to check progress, ask yourself why?

 

And never, ever, pay for work done that you haven't actually seen completed.

 

And have a surveyor check the shell construction before it's finished.

 

And of course, make sure the build you are shown is actually your boat, not someone elses.

[Lady Muck]

The boat that I bought was an owner fitted sailaway. Along with a full rcd for the whole build, when we bought the boat second hand, the vendor loaned us his photo album of the entire build, from baseplate to finished fit out. We scanned the photos . I cannot express how useful it is to have this information, whenever we have to do work on the boat, it is so useful to know how it was built, where the wiring goes etc.

 

So I agree, if you can take photos of the build it is not only piece of mind for you, but it can be very useful in the future.

[Albion]

OK, for those that are interested here is the story of our boat buying experiences.

 

We started by hiring long, long ago when our daughter was tiny, she's over 30 now, and we have a son who's slightly younger, so we've been boating for some time, firstly with the kids and later without. We started by years of hiring; Wyvern Shipping and Alvechurch boats. Then, after having got into the local branch of the IWA we got to know people and started, through their generosity, borrowing their boats. This was, in many instances, mutually beneficial as we took the boat so far round a route of their choice and they finished it off. This allowed them to complete a route that they would not have had the time to do if they had had to start from their base for a fortnight's holiday.

 

It was on one of those 'borrowed boat' holidays, on a friend's Les Allen boat, that we stopped at Pat Buckle's yard on the Nene at Stibbington, nr Peterborough. He was making apparently good, very reasonably priced boats and we thought that, at last, we could afford a new boat of our own. We had been looking at Springers etc before this.

 

We ordered, and took delivery of our first boat from Pat Buckle in about 1991. It was a 47.5 ft trad called Naiad and cost about £19,500 although, being in the motor trade, I had supplied a fully reconditioned and marinised BL 1.8 complete with instrument panel/wiring loom etc so that wasn't included in the price above. I had spent the time between ordering and the boat build, reconditioning/marinising my own engine etc. I even had the crank, pistons, rods and flywheel balanced (Yeah, I know, sad......but it ran like a dream). Pat was a straight as a die, couldn't fault him. It was only a basic build, simple fit out and 12V only but served us well until the late 90s when we decided to sell. By that time I'd added 240V and an inverter/charger as I was now living on it for 4 nights per week while I worked away from home.

Pat's boats were, as I said, simple and budget, but we had a lot of fun with Naiad and no significant warranty problems. He later used to build all the Ownerships boats whose names started with an O or an S (Oasis, Solace, that sort of name). I think, but I may be wrong, that he is now semi-retired but he might, unless I've got it wrong, be fitting out the Calcutt Clipper class of new boat. (info might be out of date but I believe it was so once). Sueb, of this group might be able to confirm my thoughts about Pat as, during Naiad's build, she and hubby Roger were fitting out a Buckle shell on-site themselves.

 

I then got interested in Gardner diesel engines and we decided to have a new boat built to fit a Gardner into a trad engine room. I got a

Gardner 4LK reconditioned and marinised by Danny Williamson. Superb engine and a very genuine guy. Now in retirement and only producing the very occasional engine.

We ordered the shell from Graham Edgson of Norton Canes. Absolutely superb craftsman and a thoroughly nice guy. We had the most complex shell he had ever built. It was a 59ft trad with recessed panels down the whole length. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Graham (a glorious product and as genuine a guy as you could wish to meet). His shells aren't cheap and he only does trad shells of 50ft plus IIRC, but what a superb product. At the time he wasn't doing fit-outs at his yard so we had the shell shipped to Milburn Boats for fit-out. Since then Graham has a couple of fitters doing fit-outs in his yard and I believe that these are OK but I have no direct experience.

Milburns did an excellent job on the fit-out but, my one criticism, was the over-run on delivery (about 6 months). At the time they were fitting out the later Ownerships boats on Reeves shells (the ones with village names) and every time an Ownerships show was coming up and the show boat was late, they dropped mine to concentrate on the show boat (this is not a secret or speculation as they told me that they had had to do so on a couple of occasions).

Albion came out at about £93,000 in late 2001 (see: http://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/b...ails.asp?id=11) if you're interested in what I got for that money.

I believe that, as Milburns no longer build Ownerships (OSs now come from Poland I think) you would get an upper-middle build from them on a Reeves shell of reasonable quality in reasonable delivery times. We have friends who have just such a boat.

 

We kept Albion and then decided (as I had sold my garage business and site by then) to have another boat built for use in France. Through another marketing company, we were directed to South West Durham Steelcraft Ltd. We had a 49ft x 14ft wide beam built there and, while not expecting it to be of the same quality as Albion, we were somewhat disappointed with the build quality. In my opinion the upper management were OK but the middle management/workforce-supervision couldn't care less and the build quality ethos of the work force suffered as a result. We got the boat over to France only to discover that it handled badly (too flat bottomed, had all the steering characteristics of a saucer floating on water). I spent 2.5 years modifying the underwater steelwork until we eventually achieved a boat that would handle and steer (Ours had been only the second of that class of boat to be built). I fed back all my modifications to SWDS and many of them were incorporated into later vessels of the same class. The later ones were much better from the handling point of view. Then SWDS folded (It was alleged that they went down owing a lot of money to suppliers and their wide beam marketing partners but that is only hearsay/third party info of course). They then started up again as Le Skerne Boatbuilders but it wasn't long before they folded again. This was the company where we were let down on some warranty issues. This boat cost about £183,000 IIRC.

 

As we were then spending so much time in France and Albion was lying unused for two years, we decided to sell her but I refused to sell my beloved narrow boat unless we sold the French boat as well, so that the combined finances would fund another, better quality, barge for France. If I was going to continue boating in the UK I would never, never, have sold Albion. We were totally satisfied with her and would have still owned her today under different circumstances.

 

We had some luck and sold both the wide beam and Albion fairly quickly completing the sales in November 2008 and, ordered a Sagar barge for France immediately (having done our homework and seen/handled other Sagars, naturally). I have been completely satisfied with Sagars in every way so far. We are about half way through the build having a finished painted shell floating outside the building and the fit-out under way. I have no hesitation in recommending Sagars (admittedly, not cheap, but superb quality and a nice family to deal with).

 

Now, the $64,000 dollar question. How did I know who to buy from and who to avoid. That's a difficult question to answer. I had had lot's of experience of boats and boating before buying our first. You pick up knowledge and rumour along the way. I am also an engineer of reasonable DIY practical ability so I know an example of good craftsmanship when I see it. Then I followed my gut instinct after speaking to the people involved and have not regretted that approach. Again, you need to keep your ear to the ground and look at the products produced and then go and talk over the build with several builders long before committing your money. The one company where I didn't, in effect, do my own research as I was directed to them by a third party marketing company, was SWDS and they were the ones that folded about two years after delivering my boat.

A site like this didn't exist when I started buying boats but, if we could all, somehow, post without fear or favour in a diplomatic and sensible way then I believe that it would be an invaluable resource for those following the same route.

Roger

Edited November 22, 2009 by Albion

[number four]

we are having a sailaway built

we are using a builder with 2 generation of experiance behind them

an owners club which i think is always a good sign

and last of all we are paying 15% up front and the finall balance 85% once we see the finished boat

i put a good deal of fath in a builder that can finance 85% of the build

we have said at what stages we wish to inspect the boat and make final desisions.

also as we dont live near the builder a friend who does is going to visit oftern and take picturs.

but i do still have fingers and toes crossed.

[Athy]

We have had two new boats built and, whilst there were minor niggles on both occasions, we were blissfully unaware of the horrors which were befalling some prospective buyers. Without wasting words, I can thoroughly recommend Devizes Narrowboat Builders, run by Tim Wickenden, who pulled all the stops out to fit out 'Batto' for us in 2001, and Mel Davis Boatbuilders, who built 'Trojan's shell and installed her Gardner engine in 2006. Both these concerns were honest, pleasant and almost punctual! DNB just do fit-outs (we used a Liverpool shell) and MDB just do steelwork but can recommend fitters (we used Mark Gravil whose craftsmanship was breathtaking and whose lack of any sense of time was almost as breathtaking, so Fox Boats finished the fit-out very competently and quickly).

[Doorman]

The boat that I bought was an owner fitted sailaway. Along with a full rcd for the whole build, when we bought the boat second hand, the vendor loaned us his photo album of the entire build, from baseplate to finished fit out. We scanned the photos . I cannot express how useful it is to have this information, whenever we have to do work on the boat, it is so useful to know how it was built, where the wiring goes etc.

 

So I agree, if you can take photos of the build it is not only piece of mind for you, but it can be very useful in the future.

 

 

Completely agree!

 

We were allowed full access to our boat at every stage of the build process. I have over 300 photo's of which I expect will be very useful for future

reference.

 

Mike

[NB Alnwick]

Our advice on this is quite simple and straightforward:

 

1. Choose the style, type or shape of boat that you are looking for;
   
2. Talk to existing owners of similar boats to find out who built them and what their experience was of the builder;
   
3. Visit the most recommended builders and see for yourself, be very wary of anyone who will not allow you access to boats 'in progress' or let you look round the yard. At the better boat yards you will most likely meet other satisfied owners who are there to 'supervise' the final fitting out of their new boats or just socialising;
   
4. Finally, do a Companies House search on the company and its directors to make sure that there are no irregularities.
   

 

And if all else fails buy second-hand . . .

[Lady Muck]

I note that you can do credit checks for about £5 a company via the 192 website - could be worth doing? I've been in the habit of credit checking new clients for some time, now.

[starman]

I've tested a considerable number of new boats for a canal magazine and therefore met many owners and builders. When I edited the mag I also heard a few tales of woe too.

I have to say I'm staggered by the naivete of some buyers who set out to buy a boat without any research, any clear idea of what they want (other than 'can I have one like that one I saw at Crick) and sometimes even any experience of owning or cruising a boat. Visiting shows, talking to builders, to owners, to fellow boaters etc is an essential pre-requisite. Even the most reputable firms can fail but the truly 'dodgy' ones are known about and the towpath telegraph should give you a few clues.

The research will also enable you to get a clearer idea of prices, layouts, quality and the 'house styles' of various firms.

A buyer should then specify their boat as closely as possible - in writing. Many disputes happen because the customer was expecting one thing and gets another. And it's a two-way thing - boatbuilders suffer because buyers change their minds mid-build, causing delays, extra costs and the inevitable arguments about who pays.

As others will have said, get a detailed contract drawn up - the British Marine Federation one can be downloaded from the Canal Boatbuilders Assn website. And don't pay significant sums of money in advance. Don't believe sob stories or be bullied into doing so. But again - trying to be fair to both sides - boats are bespoke; these are tough economic times and small builders can't take the risk of a buyer who might represent nearly half a year's work backing out because they've lost their job/their house sale etc leaving them with unpaid work and an unsaleable boat. A sensible compromise is to pay any advance monies into an independent escrow style account.

And get a surveyor to check the progress of the build to check technical correctness and build quality. At the very least, make regular and sometimes unannounced visits. Photograph your build, see the things you've paid for, note serial numbers of things like engines.

 

But my number one piece of advice is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. If a company's pricing and claims look too good to be true, then they are just that.

[Keeping Up]

We spent 4 years looking for our ideal boatbuilder, one who could understand what we wanted and then build it. Most of the boatbuilders whom we rejected, either said "Yes that's our standard design. If you like it we'll build you one; if you don't like it then I'm sorry we can't help you" or "Yes we'll build your boat exactly as you want it. Just bring us the plans".

 

Eventually we chose Stoke on Trent Boat Builders, who could take our unworkable dreams and turn them into fully functioning reality by adding the benefit of their considerable experience. As most people here will know, we are still 100% happy with the result 18 years later.

 

On thing that paricularly impressed us was their demonstrable commitment to our satisfaction with everything that they did. They were positively disappointed that we couldn't inspect their workmanship every week, and we settled for agreeing that we would try to visit them at least once a fortnight. They made a particular point of not covering up any vital feature with panelling etc until we had seen it and had been shown how it fitted together and how to access it in the future. We also took photos at all stages of the build, which were to prove invaluable in later years.

 

I wouldn't want to place an order with any boatbuilder who didn't show this level of commitment. If they were in any way unhappy about regular visits from either myself or my representative (a surveyor for example) then I would keep well clear of them; and in these days of modern technology I would ask their reaction to there being a webcam to show me the progress in real time (a technique once used to good effect by Gary on this forum).

 

If you'd like to read more and see some of the build pictures, there is a page on my website about it.

[Doorman]

I've tested a considerable number of new boats for a canal magazine and therefore met many owners and builders. When I edited the mag I also heard a few tales of woe too.

I have to say I'm staggered by the naivete of some buyers who set out to buy a boat without any research, any clear idea of what they want (other than 'can I have one like that one I saw at Crick) and sometimes even any experience of owning or cruising a boat. Visiting shows, talking to builders, to owners, to fellow boaters etc is an essential pre-requisite. Even the most reputable firms can fail but the truly 'dodgy' ones are known about and the towpath telegraph should give you a few clues.

The research will also enable you to get a clearer idea of prices, layouts, quality and the 'house styles' of various firms.

A buyer should then specify their boat as closely as possible - in writing. Many disputes happen because the customer was expecting one thing and gets another. And it's a two-way thing - boatbuilders suffer because buyers change their minds mid-build, causing delays, extra costs and the inevitable arguments about who pays.

As others will have said, get a detailed contract drawn up - the British Marine Federation one can be downloaded from the Canal Boatbuilders Assn website. And don't pay significant sums of money in advance. Don't believe sob stories or be bullied into doing so. But again - trying to be fair to both sides - boats are bespoke; these are tough economic times and small builders can't take the risk of a buyer who might represent nearly half a year's work backing out because they've lost their job/their house sale etc leaving them with unpaid work and an unsaleable boat. A sensible compromise is to pay any advance monies into an independent escrow style account.

And get a surveyor to check the progress of the build to check technical correctness and build quality. At the very least, make regular and sometimes unannounced visits. Photograph your build, see the things you've paid for, note serial numbers of things like engines.

 

But my number one piece of advice is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. If a company's pricing and claims look too good to be true, then they are just that.

 

 

So am I. We've met loads of boaters who've done just that. One chap on our Marina bought an Aqualine wide beam boat that was finished to an excellent standard. Because he suddenly realised that canal boating

was not for him, he proceeded to complain to the company about ridiculous tiny imperfections that most people would overlook.

 

To their credit, Aqualine accomodated the customer with repairs (even a full re-paint) to satisfy his 'concerns'. After months of negotiations, the company agreed to buy the boat back from the chap, exactly what he was pushing for,

simply because he had not researched, or, experienced canal life prior to making his decision to buy!

[DHutch]

When my sailaway was being built I turned up unannounced two or three times a week and took regular photos, starting with the build number welded into the baseplate.

I would proberbly have my name welded or painted onto it somewhere too if it wasnt clear from the hull shape that it was my boat, over anyone elses. After the occation where more than one party have been shown the same boat as being theres.

[steviehat]

This thread is for all of you boaters out there who have commissioned a new boat to be built to pass on your advice to those who are considering doing the same.

 

It is not for naming and shaming boat builders any posts of this nature will be edited or removed- if you want to do that, we'd prefer you held the risk and started your own blog or site, which we know some boaters have done and we wish them well.

 

It is more of a general advice thread - what did you do right? What did you do wrong? How can you protect yourself from cowboys.

 

Over to you....

 

Ask the boat builder to put you in touch [ email or phone no's] with his last three or four customers.That should do the trick. I should have done that with my Keynsham boat builder then i'd have run a mile!

[keble]

I got some advice from Stephen (?) Harral when buying your first boat - get a standard boat, don't try to design it yourself. When you've had it a while then you'll know what you want and can design your own.

 

So we bought a 50' "Anderton" production boat from Northwich in April 2008. They delivered on time and on price.

 

There were a few niggles (eg door hinge broke, not enough ballast, water didn't heat from Webasto) but they fixed them pretty quickly even though we're a long way from Sandbach.

 

The maiden voyage was great fun!

Now we're coming up to 2 year's ownership and it's been pretty good, no real hassles and not much I'd change.

[Doorman]

OK, for those that are interested here is the story of our boat buying experiences.

 

We started by hiring long, long ago when our daughter was tiny, she's over 30 now, and we have a son who's slightly younger, so we've been boating for some time, firstly with the kids and later without. We started by years of hiring; Wyvern Shipping and Alvechurch boats. Then, after having got into the local branch of the IWA we got to know people and started, through their generosity, borrowing their boats. This was, in many instances, mutually beneficial as we took the boat so far round a route of their choice and they finished it off. This allowed them to complete a route that they would not have had the time to do if they had had to start from their base for a fortnight's holiday.

 

It was on one of those 'borrowed boat' holidays, on a friend's Les Allen boat, that we stopped at Pat Buckle's yard on the Nene at Stibbington, nr Peterborough. He was making apparently good, very reasonably priced boats and we thought that, at last, we could afford a new boat of our own. We had been looking at Springers etc before this.

 

We ordered, and took delivery of our first boat from Pat Buckle in about 1991. It was a 47.5 ft trad called Naiad and cost about £19,500 although, being in the motor trade, I had supplied a fully reconditioned and marinised BL 1.8 complete with instrument panel/wiring loom etc so that wasn't included in the price above. I had spent the time between ordering and the boat build, reconditioning/marinising my own engine etc. I even had the crank, pistons, rods and flywheel balanced (Yeah, I know, sad......but it ran like a dream). Pat was a straight as a die, couldn't fault him. It was only a basic build, simple fit out and 12V only but served us well until the late 90s when we decided to sell. By that time I'd added 240V and an inverter/charger as I was now living on it for 4 nights per week while I worked away from home.

Pat's boats were, as I said, simple and budget, but we had a lot of fun with Naiad and no significant warranty problems. He later used to build all the Ownerships boats whose names started with an O or an S (Oasis, Solace, that sort of name). I think, but I may be wrong, that he is now semi-retired but he might, unless I've got it wrong, be fitting out the Calcutt Clipper class of new boat. (info might be out of date but I believe it was so once). Sueb, of this group might be able to confirm my thoughts about Pat as, during Naiad's build, she and hubby Roger were fitting out a Buckle shell on-site themselves.

 

I then got interested in Gardner diesel engines and we decided to have a new boat built to fit a Gardner into a trad engine room. I got a

Gardner 4LK reconditioned and marinised by Danny Williamson. Superb engine and a very genuine guy. Now in retirement and only producing the very occasional engine.

We ordered the shell from Graham Edgson of Norton Canes. Absolutely superb craftsman and a thoroughly nice guy. We had the most complex shell he had ever built. It was a 59ft trad with recessed panels down the whole length. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Graham (a glorious product and as genuine a guy as you could wish to meet). His shells aren't cheap and he only does trad shells of 50ft plus IIRC, but what a superb product. At the time he wasn't doing fit-outs at his yard so we had the shell shipped to Milburn Boats for fit-out. Since then Graham has a couple of fitters doing fit-outs in his yard and I believe that these are OK but I have no direct experience.

Milburns did an excellent job on the fit-out but, my one criticism, was the over-run on delivery (about 6 months). At the time they were fitting out the later Ownerships boats on Reeves shells (the ones with village names) and every time an Ownerships show was coming up and the show boat was late, they dropped mine to concentrate on the show boat (this is not a secret or speculation as they told me that they had had to do so on a couple of occasions).

Albion came out at about £93,000 in late 2001 (see: http://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/b...ails.asp?id=11) if you're interested in what I got for that money.

I believe that, as Milburns no longer build Ownerships (OSs now come from Poland I think) you would get an upper-middle build from them on a Reeves shell of reasonable quality in reasonable delivery times. We have friends who have just such a boat.

 

We kept Albion and then decided (as I had sold my garage business and site by then) to have another boat built for use in France. Through another marketing company, we were directed to South West Durham Steelcraft Ltd. We had a 49ft x 14ft wide beam built there and, while not expecting it to be of the same quality as Albion, we were somewhat disappointed with the build quality. In my opinion the upper management were OK but the middle management/workforce-supervision couldn't care less and the build quality ethos of the work force suffered as a result. We got the boat over to France only to discover that it handled badly (too flat bottomed, had all the steering characteristics of a saucer floating on water). I spent 2.5 years modifying the underwater steelwork until we eventually achieved a boat that would handle and steer (Ours had been only the second of that class of boat to be built). I fed back all my modifications to SWDS and many of them were incorporated into later vessels of the same class. The later ones were much better from the handling point of view. Then SWDS folded (It was alleged that they went down owing a lot of money to suppliers and their wide beam marketing partners but that is only hearsay/third party info of course). They then started up again as Le Skerne Boatbuilders but it wasn't long before they folded again. This was the company where we were let down on some warranty issues. This boat cost about £183,000 IIRC.

 

As we were then spending so much time in France and Albion was lying unused for two years, we decided to sell her but I refused to sell my beloved narrow boat unless we sold the French boat as well, so that the combined finances would fund another, better quality, barge for France. If I was going to continue boating in the UK I would never, never, have sold Albion. We were totally satisfied with her and would have still owned her today under different circumstances.

 

We had some luck and sold both the wide beam and Albion fairly quickly completing the sales in November 2008 and, ordered a Sagar barge for France immediately (having done our homework and seen/handled other Sagars, naturally). I have been completely satisfied with Sagars in every way so far. We are about half way through the build having a finished painted shell floating outside the building and the fit-out under way. I have no hesitation in recommending Sagars (admittedly, not cheap, but superb quality and a nice family to deal with).

 

Now, the $64,000 dollar question. How did I know who to buy from and who to avoid. That's a difficult question to answer. I had had lot's of experience of boats and boating before buying our first. You pick up knowledge and rumour along the way. I am also an engineer of reasonable DIY practical ability so I know an example of good craftsmanship when I see it. Then I followed my gut instinct after speaking to the people involved and have not regretted that approach. Again, you need to keep your ear to the ground and look at the products produced and then go and talk over the build with several builders long before committing your money. The one company where I didn't, in effect, do my own research as I was directed to them by a third party marketing company, was SWDS and they were the ones that folded about two years after delivering my boat.

A site like this didn't exist when I started buying boats but, if we could all, somehow, post without fear or favour in a diplomatic and sensible way then I believe that it would be an invaluable resource for those following the same route.

Roger

 

Very interesting and informative!

 

I guess we've been fortunate in the fact that we believe the boatbuilder we finally chose, was of an excellent standard.

 

Our journey began in October 2006, by hiring a 35' cruiser stern Liverpool Boat, from Black Prince in Acton Bridge, Cheshire. It was a surprise birthday present for my wife. I told her to pack some clothes as we were going away for a few days. Being totally organised, she wished to know what sort of clothes to pack. If I'd told her to bring thick wooley jumpers and heavy duty boots, that would have gave the game away, as we'd recently discussed how we'd love to hire a narrow boat. I suppose the stainless steel windlass, mooring pins and lump hammer in the suitcase gave her a hint of some sort!

 

We met the people at Black Prince, passing a lovely thatched roofed pub along the way, she was convinced that was where we were going to stay! After watching the ten minute instruction video and having a 70 metre trial run on the boat, off we went not knowing what lay before us. Two tunnels, many locks and a diesel boiler that suffered from epilectic fits. Even though we travelled through sub zero temperatures on open stretches, we loved every minute of our voyage. So much so, I telephoned the people at Black Prince and requested a further 3 days be added to our term.

 

That was it, we'd been bitten by the boating bug! along the way, we'd seen many stunning narrowboats and yearned for one of our own. Returning from Barbridge Junction, we noticed a recently completed boat moored outside of a Chandler's, at the junction of the Middlewich branch and the Trent & Mersey canal. We enquired with the owner of the Chandlers about the boat, price (£85k), build time etc., He enthusiastically showed us around this newley finished craft that appeared to be well built and atractively painted. Like fools, we immediately decided to leave a £2,000 deposit with him, to secure a build slot for the coming year.

 

As my wife had suffered from a life threatening form of cancer, some two years previous, we decided that we couldn't wait to get onto the canals and we should buy a second hand boat as an interim solution, while waiting for a new boat to be built. As the boatbuilder we'd left the deposit with, had recently opened a new brokerage at Venetien Marina, Church Minsull, we informed him of our intentions and enquired as to whether he had a budget second hand boat on his books. Reluctantly, in June 2007, he sold us a second hand cruiser stern 40' boat. We had the boat out of the water prior to purchase and all seemed well considering it's 20 year age.

 

Before setting off from the marina on our homeward voyage, we asked the broker to re-pack the stern gland seal and replace the alternator 'V' belt. His fitter did this and advised us that he'd placed a rubber bandage around one of the calorifier hoses as it had been chafing on the engine bearer. He also consulted with the broker regarding the hose and appeared somewhat concerened that we were about to embark on a 98 mile

journey with the hose being in this condition. The broker appeared to shun his concerns and waved us merrily on our way. His initial reluctance was due to the belief that we would no longer want a new boat once we'd bought a second hand one.

 

During our jouney, the said calorifier hose burst and although the engine didn't overheat significantly, we were left stranded on a Sunday evening in sunny Wigan, Lancashire. The next day, I was able call a boat engineer to repair the hose and we continued our journey. His opinion of the boat condition was that is was not fit for purpose in its present condition. Further along the Leeds & Liverpool canal, we moored overnight in Leigh, Lancs. The next morning, we found that the batteries were flat, the cause was a loosened battery feed cable on the alternator. It appeared that when the fitter replaced the 'V' belt, he neglected to check the cable terminal. Once again, we were stranded overnight. Only for the kind help from another boater, who drove me around the town until we found a car accessory shop to sell me a battery charger we would have been stuck there for some time.

 

We finally made it back to our marina in Lancashire, some 98 miles from where we purchased the boat. Our opinion of the Broker/Boatbuilder was somewhat

tarnished. As we had to rely on the sale of our commercial property to fund the new boat build and the property market had become deflated, we advised the boatbuilder of our situation and everything was placed on hold.

 

Prior to buying our second hand boat, we decided to visit Crick Boat Show in 2007, just to see what alternatives were available. We were amazed to see that our designated boatbuilder had a 38' cruiser stern 'show boat' on display, complete with foor boards and cabin sides, but no bulkheads and only markers on the floor indicating where your cooker would be etc., By this time, our primary doubts were being fuelled with further evidence of this chap's competence to deliver a boat to the same standard as the original finished craft we'd seen whilst passing by on the hire boat. It was after three days of viewing the good the bad and the down right ugly at Crick, did we finally acknowledge that we'd made a colossal mistake in leaving a deposit with someone we'd only just met.

 

Moreover, when asked about certain elements of his boat specification, the boatbuilder would go into bullsh*t mode, something neither myself nor my wife were very impressed with! While at Crick, we had noticed certain boatbuilders would have long queues of potential customers waiting to inspect their boats, while others, would have none! On close inspection, you could understand why.

 

One particular builder we came across was SM Hudson. He had two narrowboats on a hardstanding display, one with a modern engine mounted in the stern of the boat, the other with a traditional engine and boatman's cabin. the benefit of the boats being out of the water, was that you could see the hull in detail, together with the substantial stern gear. On meeting with Steve Hudson and repeatedly asking him whether he produced semi-trad style of boats, to which he emphatically told me NO! numerous times, I gathered that this guy was not for moving, but, more importantly, he didn'y care too much for bullsh*t.

 

This, we decided, was our man. We took up his invitation to attend his next open day in July of that year, whereby we met many satisfied customers and were able to see boats built at various stages and at various specifications. At no point were we misled by this guy, what you see is what you get. Some folk may not appreciate his direct approach, but the man knows his boats and how to build them. we took advantage of the open day offer of additional specifications to your boat free of charge, once you'd paid a £500 deposit within a month of the open day. Plenty of cooling off time to consider your thoughts.

 

To cut a very long story short, I've typed this post while sitting on our newly built Hudson boat, albeit frozen in on the iced up Coventry Canal. Both myself and my wife are absolutely chuffed with our new home on the water. You can't hurry Steve Hudson along, but, by god it's worth the wait!

 

As I said in my initial statement, we consider ourselves very lucky, that through circumstance, not by intelligence or expedience, we came across a boatbuilder who fullfills his promise. It would appear from some recent posts, that he is a rare commodity these days.

 

My only advice to a potential boat buyer is; read as much about your chosen craft as possible, learn about your possible boatbuilder from his previous customers and gain valuable experience from the tales of woe of people on this and maybe other forums, who've been virtually bankrupted by unscrupulous sods who care very little about you and your boat!

 

Good luck!

[Albion]

One particular builder we came across was SM Hudson. He had two narrowboats on a hardstanding display, one with a modern engine mounted in the stern of the boat, the other with a traditional engine and boatman's cabin. the benefit of the boats being out of the water, was that you could see the hull in detail, together with the substantial stern gear. On meeting with Steve Hudson and repeatedly asking him whether he produced semi-trad style of boats, to which he emphatically told me NO! numerous times, I gathered that this guy was not for moving, but, more importantly, he didn'y care too much for bullsh*t.

 

This, we decided, was our man. We took up his invitation to attend his next open day in July of that year, whereby we met many satisfied customers and were able to see boats built at various stages and at various specifications. At no point were we misled by this guy, what you see is what you get. Some folk may not appreciate his direct approach, but the man knows his boats and how to build them. we took advantage of the open day offer of additional specifications to your boat free of charge, once you'd paid a £500 deposit within a month of the open day. Plenty of cooling off time to consider your thoughts.

 

To cut a very long story short, I've typed this post while sitting on our newly built Hudson boat, albeit frozen in on the iced up Coventry Canal. Both myself and my wife are absolutely chuffed with our new home on the water. You can't hurry Steve Hudson along, but, by god it's worth the wait!

 

Now that is interesting because, although two very good friends of mine own Hudsons (built after my experience below), my experience was very different when we were looking for a builder for Albion. We took our spec to Hudsons and spent some time discussing with Steve what we wanted etc. We were leaving his office in the yard to return home when, suddenly I remembered that I wanted to ask about something else, so I turned back and went back into office again to see Steve screwing up my spec and his notes and throwing it into the bin. He also later couldn't explain the price difference between a B+ spec and a C- spec. That was enough for me, and he had obviously decided that we were a waste of time. In the end I decided to go to Graham Edgson and never regretted it. We also eventually spent much more on the boat than Hudson had ever quoted so he ended up losing an order due to his attitude.

Roger

[Doorman]

Now that is interesting because, although two very good friends of mine own Hudsons (built after my experience below), my experience was very different

when we were looking for a builder for Albion. We took our spec to Hudsons and spent some time discussing with Steve what we wanted etc. We were leaving

his office in the yard to return home when, suddenly I remembered that I wanted to ask about something else, so I turned back and went back into office again

to see Steve screwing up my spec and his notes and throwing it into the bin. He also later couldn't explain the price difference between a B+ spec and a C- spec.

That was enough for me, and he had obviously decided that we were a waste of time. In the end I decided to go to Graham Edgson and never regretted it.

We also eventually spent much more on the boat than Hudson had ever quoted so he ended up losing an order due to his attitude.

Roger

 

Very interesting indeed!

 

Can't imagine why he would do that. He appears to be a good businessman and to turn away a genuine enquiry such as yours, would be like commercial suicide.

Did you disagree over an issue, or, was it the debate over the price difference between a B+ spec and a C- spec. Admittedly, Steve is rigid in his ways and I imagine that

doesn't always bode well with everybody.

 

We can only speak from our particular experience and are really pleased with the boat. I imagine Steve did you a favour in steering you towards Graham Edgson.

Apart from your own endorsement of Graham, I've heard nothing but good comments about him and his wonderful boats!

 

Mike

[Albion]

Very interesting indeed!

 

Can't imagine why he would do that. He appears to be a good businessman and to turn away a genuine enquiry such as yours, would be like commercial suicide.

Did you disagree over an issue, or, was it the debate over the price difference between a B+ spec and a C- spec. Admittedly, Steve is rigid in his ways and I imagine that

doesn't always bode well with everybody.

 

We can only speak from our particular experience and are really pleased with the boat. I imagine Steve did you a favour in steering you towards Graham Edgson.

Apart from your own endorsement of Graham, I've heard nothing but good comments about him and his wonderful boats!

 

Mike

 

No the discussion over the difference between a B (plus items) versus a C (minus items) only came later as I hadn't completely written him off even after the waste paper bin event. I could not get him to explain why a B plus xxxx wasn't the same price as a C minus other things when you ended up with exactly the same boat. There was a significant difference in price and yet they were, to all intents and purposes, the same boat.

My two friends have got good boats in the end, particularly the C spec one so he's keeping many customers happy. My gut feeling was that maybe he thought I was a time waster.

Roger

[Doorman]

No the discussion over the difference between a B (plus items) versus a C (minus items) only came later as I hadn't completely written him off even after the waste paper bin event. I could not get him to explain why a B plus xxxx wasn't the same price as a C minus other things when you ended up with exactly the same boat. There was a significant difference in price and yet they were, to all intents and purposes, the same boat.

My two friends have got good boats in the end, particularly the C spec one so he's keeping many customers happy. My gut feeling was that maybe he thought I was a time waster.

Roger

 

 

Time waster no! Just thorough in your investigation of a potential boat builder, nothing wrong with that.

 

I can only guess that your extensive knowledge may have phased him somewhat. He may have thought

that it could have been 'hard work' building to your spec. Having said that, while visiting his boatyard over

the build period of our boat, we were shown other customer's boats to evaluate their ideas and then maybe

amend some of our own.

 

To be quite frank, after witnessing some of their designs, I don't think anything you'd had in

mind could have possibly caused him an issue!

 

Mike

[Matthew Dowson]

If my brother used this website he would sing the praises of Blue Haven Marine, Rugby, who fitted out ALPHA. Ten years later nothing has fallen off, and its in great condition, particularly the Amtico floor they fitted. It was a Roger Farrington (Farringdon?) hull.

[bargeeboy]

we are having a sailaway built

we are using a builder with 2 generation of experiance behind them

an owners club which i think is always a good sign

and last of all we are paying 15% up front and the finall balance 85% once we see the finished boat

i put a good deal of fath in a builder that can finance 85% of the build

we have said at what stages we wish to inspect the boat and make final desisions.

also as we dont live near the builder a friend who does is going to visit oftern and take picturs.

but i do still have fingers and toes crossed.

Narrowcraft only want 10% initial payment for a fully fitted boat !

 

Balance on Delivery

[Searcher]

I am not sure if this may be removed as it may be classed as advertising .

To day we went to Braidbar Boats in Higher Poynton as they had an open day .Many owners were there allowing visitors to view their boats and they answered any questions . Braidbar appear to have quite a full order book and all the owners we spoke to were very impressed with their purchases. The quality of the build and some of the innovations were memorable .

We thoroughly enjoyed our visit and shall use Braidbar if we need a builder in the future .

[Guest]

I am not sure if this may be removed as it may be classed as advertising .

To day we went to Braidbar Boats in Higher Poynton as they had an open day .Many owners were there allowing visitors to view their boats and they answered any questions . Braidbar appear to have quite a full order book and all the owners we spoke to were very impressed with their purchases. The quality of the build and some of the innovations were memorable .

We thoroughly enjoyed our visit and shall use Braidbar if we need a builder in the future .

 

Get saving hard or get that lottery ticket dusted off - they ain't cheap -

 

TBH I've never been that impressed with the boats they've had at Crick - very nice yes but there are other builders equally as good - if you are serious about buying new do ensure you shop around.

[Doorman]

Get saving hard or get that lottery ticket dusted off - they ain't cheap -

 

TBH I've never been that impressed with the boats they've had at Crick - very nice yes but there are other builders equally as good - if you are serious about buying new do ensure you shop around.

 

 

Good advice indeed! We too have visited Lord Vernon's Wharf over at Higher Poynton. Braidbar Boats have an excellent reputation, but as MJG said, they are very expensive and it's well worth spending time researching alternative boat builders.

 

From experience, I've discovered that some of the premium builders, are not particularly well advertised. Probably because their fine reputation precedes them and word of mouth is a very powerful advertising media.

 

Mike