Premier Back Cabin Range

[Guzziman]

If anyone has a Premier range and could pass on any hints and tips on lighting, running, cooking with a back cabin range we would much appreciate any advice you have to offer. We have a Premier but haven't even shown it a match yet, now the weather is changing we would like to put it into action, don't know if it likes wood or coal or how much to put in it.

Any advice what so ever, even if it's don't sit on it when it's hot!

Look forward to hearing from you,

regards,

Guzziman

[PeterG]

If anyone has a Premier range and could pass on any hints and tips on lighting, running, cooking with a back cabin range we would much appreciate any advice you have to offer. We have a Premier but haven't even shown it a match yet, now the weather is changing we would like to put it into action, don't know if it likes wood or coal or how much to put in it.

Any advice what so ever, even if it's don't sit on it when it's hot!

Look forward to hearing from you,

regards,

Guzziman

 

I also have one and have yet to light it. So if anyone does have any advice then I also will be very interested.

 

From what I can work out, with the small firebox coal is the only way to go once it is alight.

 

We would love to try some cooking on it but not sure what is practical to do.

[dave moore]

Hi both

I've not used a Premier (mine's an Epping) but the same ideas apply....firlighters then firewood to start with along with lots of air initially to get things going. When the wood's burning well add coal or smokeless and keep the air on to maintain combustion. Once the fuel's well alight you can turn the damper down to restrict air flow and have a slow burn, sufficient to heat a back cabin and to cook with. I keep a kettle on when single handing in winter so I can make a cuppa on the move. Food wise? Done lots of different stuff over the years, casserloles are ideal in my view...put 'em in early on a low heat and add jacket potatoes later. You can't go wrong!

Fuel choice...house coal replicates the reek of working boat stove but bungs up the flues quite quickly so most of mine is smokeless these days...small nut type fuels such as Phurnacite do well on the Epping, but whatever works best for you.

Good luck

Dave

Grew up with coal fires in the 50s, still have one at home now.

[Mrs Strads]

We have a classic. WE start with wood and fire lighters or paper if the windi is up. Once going we get the smokeless coal on.

I cook lots of home made soups, Stews, Curries, cottage pie, propper pie with pastry. You can do almost any thing you would cook on a normal stove you just have to get used to it taking longer than on gas or elcetric and if using the oven turn stuff around other wise one side cooks (burns) quicker than the other.

 

Good luck!

[Liam]

I used to burn Pet coke on my Epping but got sick and tired of having to leave the hatch open each night due to the heat, even more frustrating was when it rained at night and everything got soaking.

 

I have recently moved to good old fashioned house coal, which I've recently bought 1.5 metric tons of, and I'm burning that now. Smokes a bit more and as Dave says, bungs everything up but I still have a few bags of Pet Coke for burning during the day to clear the crap out of it. I used to have to wait for hours for the kettle to just get warm but I seem to be able to boil a kettle quicker than on my parents 4 ring gas cooker on their pleasure boat. I do this by removing the top plate and blocking the hole with either the kettle or the pan with whatever I have in it. I've yet to use the oven side of things. I might try it with a few spuds first and see how I get on.

 

I simply drop a fire lighter in the fire box, and then chuck a few bits of kindling. At this point the flue damper is open with the bottom firebox door open too to give it plenty of air. After a while I drop a handful of coal no top, and shortly after shut the door. I leave the flue damper open for a while longer. When I shut the flue damper it tends to tick over nicely, only needing a prod a couple of times a day to get longer out of the coal - the chunks of house coal are quite big and so they don't tend to drop down as the fire burns through them.

[starman]

If your Premier is a small back cabin stove like ours the main thing is that it has a very small firebox so don't use large chunky fuel such as coal which will leave too many air gaps - Taybrite 'nuggets' work well for us. Starwoman is the official stove lighter and she uses plenty of kindling (usually just small dead sticks picked up from around the towpath) and a firelighter. She also advises to clean the flue passage across the top of the stove (accessed by removing the cover at the base of the chimney) very regularly - every couple of days she scrapes or vacuums it out to maintain a good draw.

It then starts and stays in very well. In fact it's usually lit and hot while I'm still fiddling with and cursing our recalcitrant Lockgate diesel stove to get going!

The oven is probably not up to full-on cooking (unless you want to risk overheating the surrounding woodwork!) but it will warm stuff up. We boil kettles and simmer pans on the top but - look away now health & safety officers - take the firebox top cover off to get direct heat from the fire itself.

 

While we're on the subject of Premiers; who actually makes them and do they have a website? We'll soon need a couple of spare bits.

Edited November 19, 2009 by starman

[rjasmith]

While we're on the subject of Premiers; who actually makes them and do they have a website? We'll soon need a couple of spare bits.

 

(snipped)

 

When I bought our Premier from Midland Chandlers they said they were made at a small foundry on the Isle of Man. I seem to remember they said something about the foundry owner being connected or related to the owners of MC but that could be my memory playing tricks. A call to MC would probably confirm or deny this and presumably they should also be a source of spares

 

There certainly seems to be absolutely no documentation for them which is to say the least unusual in this day and age!

 

I'm sure I'll be able to make ours work when the time comes to light it for the first time. Then it will be a matter of learning all its little foibles over time.

 

I'm a fairly good pyromaniac so I should be OK!

 

Richard

[bridgit]

Ive also got one of these stoves and have not lit it yet. Im waiting to get a decent chimney. I have heard midland chandlers sell them but can find nothing on the net. I would like to be able to do some proper cooking with it soon but I think I will end up doing jacket spuds and casseroles.

[rjasmith]

Ive also got one of these stoves and have not lit it yet. Im waiting to get a decent chimney. I have heard midland chandlers sell them but can find nothing on the net. I would like to be able to do some proper cooking with it soon but I think I will end up doing jacket spuds and casseroles.

 

Got a length of mild steel flue pipe suitable for my Premier from MC at Braunston. It's not fitted yet and I'll need to cut and weld a couple of slight bends in it to suit the stove position below the roof collar. The external chimney and collar are also standard MC offerings and the chimney is a twin skin one which may give a better draw.

 

MC seem not to put all their stock on their website unfortunately.

 

There's a lot of other stuff to do to the boat yet before the back cabin stove installation reaches the top of the list!

 

 

 

Richard

[kevinw]

We've got a Premier on "Jasmine" and use it regularly. Keeps the steerers legs warm in the winter and cooks a brilliant jacket spud. Ours also came from Midland Chandlers and like others have said, no documentation. I've found by accident that there's an adjustable vent at the side of the firebox - I keep this fully open to get a decent draft on the fire. There's another vent lever on the top, over the oven. Have never figured out exactly what this does, so leave it half way.

I light ours with a firelighter, a few bits of kindling and coal or smokeless. Just a matter of setting light to it and leaving for 10 minutes or so - never fails to work. Then I just fill the firebox with coal and forget about it for a few hours. The ashtray seems to spill, like it is too small for the grate, so it gets cleaned out with a small shovel every few days when in constant use. Also, when being lit from cold, I check that there's no ash on top of the little shelf that you can just about reach when removing the vent in the base of the chimney. If allowed to build up, I've found this will strangle the fire and all that happens is the back of the boat gets filled with smoke.

 

While all this is going on, I light the Lockgate "Squirrel" stove to warm the rest of the boat. Premier in the boatmans cabin, diesel Squirrel in the front warming 2 radiators off a back boiler and we have more heat than we need to keep a 70 ft boat warm.

 

I did once find a web site with details of the manufacturer, but should have bookmarked it at the time!

 

Kevin

[rjasmith]

There's another vent lever on the top, over the oven. Have never figured out exactly what this does, so leave it half way.

 

(snipped)

 

That was useful to hear your experience of using a Premier - its encouraging me to get on with ours but lots of other things to do first!

 

When I got ours, before I put it away in the shed which acts as the "boat bits store", I couldn't help taking the top off to see how it might work (everyone with an engineering background just has to do this I suppose!!).

 

The vent lever on the top controls the amount of flue gas that can go round the oven jacket instead of straight up the flue. One way and the oven path is shut off for a cooler oven and the other way to slightly restrict the direct path and therefore get a hotter oven. I don't think it will affect the overall draught to the fire much, as you say that's what the vent on the side is for. I expect the oven jacket path can easily get choked with soot unless very clean smokeless fuel is used.

 

Maybe you could try adjusting your oven lever, see what it does to the oven temp and let us know?

 

Richard

[kevinw]

OK - I'll now admit that I am also allegedly an engineer (according to the certificate on the wall here at home), but have learnt the very hard way to stop taking things apart to see how they work because I can't always get them to work ever again!! I usually find the cover that is retaining a spring, or the bolt that is certain to be located into a captive nut, but isn't! The story is I got moved out of Engineering into sales to prevent me from doing too much damage.

 

I *thought* that control was related to the hot gas flow around the oven based on its position - thanks Richard for confirming. And yes, the oven jacket does get coated in soot if burning low quality smokeless or ordinary coal.

 

We've not really ventured beyond baked spuds or a pan of soup, but the oven does the spuds much better than the microwave - esecially if wiped over with a bit of olive oil first.

 

Not sure when we'l be on the boat next, but will have a play with the control and see what effect it has. I seem to recall from my childhood that there was a standard recipe for a cake that was used to calibrate ovens!

 

Kevin

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi,

Along with Peter Dufficy I was the creator of the Premier stove. We named it after the trading estate "Boatmans Cabin Co Ltd" was situated on in Birmingham.

Basicly it is a modified "Nipper" range, we looked at the "Nipper" and strengthened all the "weak spots" and produced a new interior which is a welded one. It will burn almost anything, however it is best to use a smokeless or low soot fuel if you are going to use the oven a lot. Lighting is simple, a firelighter a little wood and your fuel, make sure the damper in the chimney is fully open and the re circulating knob set to just the flue outlet. Light with the door just open, SIDE VENT OPEN and off it will go. Once lit close the door and when fully lit set the flue to circulate round the oven and you will be up to roasting temperature in around 30 minutes - a lot quicker than a Epping/ classic. The gases are circulated over the top of the oven, down the front of the RH side, do a "u turn" under the oven and then come up the RH rear side and over the top and up the chmney - simples! These stoves although having a small firebox will "stay in" overnight if damped down properly.

If Midland Chandlers are still building these as we did the oven is all welded and the casings are cast iron (still made here in Willenhall). The fiddle rails if fitted should be push fit to allow for wider pans etc and easy cleaning. The first one we made is shown below.

We sold this product and all the patterns off to Midland Chandlers in 1991 as part of a deal, we no longer wanted to make them as it no longer fitted in with our other mainly non ferrous work. The castings are produced by H & H foundry in St Annes Rd Willenhall. Peter Jones (former propietor of MC) was making the ovens in the Isle of Man and assembling the stove there too. These stoves are built upside down so bear that in mind if you take one apart!

 

Edited November 20, 2009 by Laurence Hogg

[dave moore]

Hi all

I take the reference to chimneys as being the "top pipe" ie the part of the flue outside the boat ,sitting on the chimney collar. A double skin has little effect on draw IMHO, the inner skin serves to direct condensation back down the flue rather than trickling down onto the roof and then cabin side, leaving ugly tar stains..tho' my double skinned top pipe has been known to allow staining.

Most modern chimneys from chandlers are flimsy, lightweight fabrications with similarly thin brass decorative rims, hook and handle. I may shortly have a source of heavier, more traditional, top pipes if anyone's interested. Cheers

Dave

[starman]

Hi,

Along with Peter Dufficy I was the creator of the Premier stove. We named it after the trading estate "Boatmans Cabin Co Ltd" was situated on in Birmingham.

 

We sold this product and all the patterns off to Midland Chandlers in 1991 as part of a deal, we no longer wanted to make them as it no longer fitted in with our other mainly non ferrous work. The castings are produced by H & H foundry in St Annes Rd Willenhall. Peter Jones (former propietor of MC) was making the ovens in the Isle of Man and assembling the stove there too. These stoves are built upside down so bear that in mind if you take one apart!

 

Great to hear some history on this excellent little stove. Yes, Starwoman agrees it's easy to light and can indeed stay in overnight. The only time we struggled with it was when using coal as the lumps in the load we got were just too big to fill the little firebox neatly.

 

Most modern chimneys from chandlers are flimsy, lightweight fabrications with similarly thin brass decorative rims, hook and handle.

Agreed, and pretty poor quality brass at that which tarnishes almost immediately.

[Guzziman]

Hi,

Along with Peter Dufficy I was the creator of the Premier stove. We named it after the trading estate "Boatmans Cabin Co Ltd" was situated on in Birmingham.

Basicly it is a modified "Nipper" range, we looked at the "Nipper" and strengthened all the "weak spots" and produced a new interior which is a welded one. It will burn almost anything, however it is best to use a smokeless or low soot fuel if you are going to use the oven a lot. Lighting is simple, a firelighter a little wood and your fuel, make sure the damper in the chimney is fully open and the re circulating knob set to just the flue outlet. Light with the door just open, SIDE VENT OPEN and off it will go. Once lit close the door and when fully lit set the flue to circulate round the oven and you will be up to roasting temperature in around 30 minutes - a lot quicker than a Epping/ classic. The gases are circulated over the top of the oven, down the front of the RH side, do a "u turn" under the oven and then come up the RH rear side and over the top and up the chmney - simples! These stoves although having a small firebox will "stay in" overnight if damped down properly.

If Midland Chandlers are still building these as we did the oven is all welded and the casings are cast iron (still made here in Willenhall). The fiddle rails if fitted should be push fit to allow for wider pans etc and easy cleaning. The first one we made is shown below.

We sold this product and all the patterns off to Midland Chandlers in 1991 as part of a deal, we no longer wanted to make them as it no longer fitted in with our other mainly non ferrous work. The castings are produced by H & H foundry in St Annes Rd Willenhall. Peter Jones (former propietor of MC) was making the ovens in the Isle of Man and assembling the stove there too. These stoves are built upside down so bear that in mind if you take one apart!

 

 

 

 

Laurence, brilliant bit of information and history, thanks for taking the time, and thanks to everyone else for their hints and tips.

 

when I put this on the forum I didn't realise there was no "written" info with the stove, just thought we hadn't got it. Think what we have now is about as good as anyone could wish for, hope everybody finds it as useful as I have.

Now can't wait for some time off in a cold spell on the boat.

 

Guzziman (Kevin)

[ditchcrawler]

If your Premier is a small back cabin stove like ours the main thing is that it has a very small firebox so don't use large chunky fuel such as coal which will leave too many air gaps - Taybrite 'nuggets' work well for us. Starwoman is the official stove lighter and she uses plenty of kindling (usually just small dead sticks picked up from around the towpath) and a firelighter. She also advises to clean the flue passage across the top of the stove (accessed by removing the cover at the base of the chimney) very regularly - every couple of days she scrapes or vacuums it out to maintain a good draw.

It then starts and stays in very well. In fact it's usually lit and hot while I'm still fiddling with and cursing our recalcitrant Lockgate diesel stove to get going!

The oven is probably not up to full-on cooking (unless you want to risk overheating the surrounding woodwork!) but it will warm stuff up. We boil kettles and simmer pans on the top but - look away now health & safety officers - take the firebox top cover off to get direct heat from the fire itself.

 

While we're on the subject of Premiers; who actually makes them and do they have a website? We'll soon need a couple of spare bits.

I put an extension on the chimney when I light ours to get a good draw, I also use the tallest chimney I could buy, not the 11" ones you normally see on them.

 

We've got a Premier on "Jasmine" and use it regularly. Keeps the steerers legs warm in the winter and cooks a brilliant jacket spud. Ours also came from Midland Chandlers and like others have said, no documentation. I've found by accident that there's an adjustable vent at the side of the firebox - I keep this fully open to get a decent draft on the fire. There's another vent lever on the top, over the oven. Have never figured out exactly what this does, so leave it half way.

Does make you wonder how they fit them on boats that are supposedly RCD compliant when you can't (I couldn't) find any documentation for them, not even the output for ventilation requirements.

Brian

[rjasmith]

Does make you wonder how they fit them on boats that are supposedly RCD compliant when you can't (I couldn't) find any documentation for them, not even the output for ventilation requirements.

Brian

 

snipped

 

I wondered about that at first - I suppose I shall just write my own documentation for it for my Technical Manual and Owners Manual. It shouldn't be rocket science and a little bit of plagiarising of parts of the manual that comes with the other stove that will go in the front of the boat (once we've bought it) may help!

 

As for the ventilation formulae I just assumed 4kW for it on the basis that that will be substantial overkill bearing in mind that the Premier's firebox size is probably half that of eg a 4kW Aarrow Acorn 4. In a boatmans cabin it doesn't actually make any difference as even using 4kW the calculated requirement is still less than the minimum for that compartment.

 

Richard

 

Edited to add - Of course Laurence's excellent contribution above will now help me write my manuals a great deal!

Edited November 21, 2009 by rjasmith

[Laurence Hogg]

I wondered about that at first - I suppose I shall just write my own documentation for it for my Technical Manual and Owners Manual. It shouldn't be rocket science and a little bit of plagiarising of parts of the manual that comes with the other stove that will go in the front of the boat (once we've bought it) may help!

 

As for the ventilation formulae I just assumed 4kW for it on the basis that that will be substantial overkill bearing in mind that the Premier's firebox size is probably half that of eg a 4kW Aarrow Acorn 4. In a boatmans cabin it doesn't actually make any difference as even using 4kW the calculated requirement is still less than the minimum for that compartment.

 

Richard

 

Edited to add - Of course Laurence's excellent contribution above will now help me write my manuals a great deal!

 

Richard,

A full test was carried out on the prototype at Midland Chandlers Penkridge. I know they calculated the output which from memory was 3kw or there about, the problem with any stove of this type is how and what you burn, with the amount of feed ventilation available and using the direct flue you could make one of these glow! I expect MC have lost the info over the years, they arent the same company as in those days.

 

Please see my other post on stoves in this section, the "Dover" range of cookers was the genesis of the "Nipper" which the "Premier" was based on.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Laurence Hogg

[rjasmith]

Richard,

A full test was carried out on the prototype at Midland Chandlers Penkridge. I know they calculated the output which from memory was 3kw or there about, the problem with any stove of this type is how and what you burn, with the amount of feed ventilation available and using the direct flue you could make one of these glow! I expect MC have lost the info over the years, they arent the same company as in those days.

 

Please see my other post on stoves in this section, the "Dover" range of cookers was the genesis of the "Nipper" which the "Premier" was based on.

 

Thats brilliant Laurence - thanks

 

Richard

[PeterG]

That is excellent information, cannot wait to have a play. The only difference to my Premier is it does not have the side extensions and fiddle rail, but everything else makes sense.

 

Now let me just find the firelighters.

[Loafer]

If anyone is still interested in this Premier thread, I have a few more tips for this little stove.

 

I found it was difficult to damp it down sufficiently to last overnight with all coals I tried. My solution was to seal all the joints with high temp silicone, and also all but one of the slots in the lower LHS. Now it dies down to a dull glow and lasts about 10 hrs on a fill. Taybrite is too ashy and requires emptying twice in that time, but Stoveglow needs only one.

 

In certain conditions the chimney won't draw until primed, and will put itself out. I do this with a paraffin-soaked square of kitchen towel, tightly wadded, using tongs, lit, then dropped into the box at the base of the chimney. Replace the cover disk after it. That will roar like a jet engine for 1 minute- now light your firelighter in the firebox and off you go, with the ash drawer open about 5mm.

 

If you want bright orange coals and a hot roasting oven, open the ash can about 1" and you will get over 250 deg C in there for about an hour, measured with a little Morso oven thermometer inside the door.

Thereafter, a slowly reducing temperature. Pull out the knob on top RHS too, to circulate hot air around the oven box.

 

To control temperature finely overnight, don't raddle it and allow ash to build up (Stoveglow). If it dies too much, open the coal door and poke with a long screwdriver and drop some ash into the ash drawer. Then close door again and go to sleep. Wear a big gardening glove on your free hand in case you accidentally pull open the coal barrier and risk dropping hot coal onto your cabin floor!

 

I keep a CO detector in the back cabin, but it has never alarmed. I think it might, if strong gusty winds blow back down the chimney.

It's brilliant, I love it. I sleep in there with it all the time. In the morning, poke all ash out into the drawer as above, remove and empty. There will probably be more ash than the can will hold, so a small shovel (MC) is helpful in clearing out the drawer space. By the time you get the drawer back in, you have a small layer of orange coal remaining which will take a new fill without putting it out!

It's good for cooking anything that will fit in.

 

The ash from the burnt kitchen towel is no issue because the chimney box and top of stove will need cleaning out regularly anyway. As will the side channels and under the oven. A couple of home-made coat hanger tools are ideal for this job every couple of weeks if used every day.

 

Don't raddle it too vigorously - the base grille has a weak spot at the front end 'neck' and I broke one. Worth getting a spare from MC while they still have some left. About £7 iirc.

 

Awight?

[Loafer]

PS to above- the little knob at lower left side now only opens one of the air slots, but that will be enough to increase the draught considerably. The little knob at the bottom centre front is good for cleaning detritus from the floor of the stove, under the oven, usually accumulated from the channels adjacent to the oven, RHS. DONT let these channels fill up with chimney stuff- if so, when you pull out the circulation knob on top right, you will effectively be closing off the chimney and risk CO and smoke entering the cabin.

 

Any questions please ask. I personally think it's an excellent and safe stove, and won't get hot enough to burn your woodwork if more than a couple of inches away. An ecofan works well on them too.