Ex BW heritage boats

[Pluto]

What do people think about BW's disposal of their heritage boats? The L&LC Society is probably taking over Kennet, but we are a little concerned about the lack of support from BW, particularly as they do go on about volunteering and partnership on canals. We also think that there should be some co-ordination between those groups taking over craft, even if it just amounts to a discussion on what sort of qualification is required for handling boats. We will be publishing the following letter for comment.

 

British Waterways heritage craft.

 

Whilst it is good news that so many heritage craft are finding new homes (Narrow Boat, Autumn 2009 issue lists 22) the Leeds & Liverpool Canal Society has a request for information from other organisations taking on these craft. The canal society is listed against the Leeds & Liverpool shortboat Kennet, and has been looking after the craft for some time. It has been spruced up by the society and its members, including around £2000 on urgent hull repairs, and attended a number of events. It is however, as mentioned in the article, one of those craft that is ‘in the process of being transferred’. Although the society very much wishes to take on the craft, it is concerned that a sustainable solution to BW's disposal of heritage craft, beneficial to all parties, is arrived at. For example, we have stated in our application that disposal, in the event of the society being unable to continue operating Kennet, will be through the Yorkshire Waterways Museum. This will ensure that the boat will continue as a heritage boat available to the public and not be sold off to private owners.

One question is, how are other organisations that are taking on craft with considerable restoration/maintenance costs managing to obtain grant aid when the lease agreement is only for 5 years? Many grant organisations including the Heritage Lottery Fund will only fund projects where the applicant has a ‘freehold’ or another partner in the application has the ‘freehold’. British Waterways, whilst being willing to assist in grant applications, seem insistent on the proposed individual group lease arrangement, as opposed to a partnership agreement that would be much more in line with their Twenty Twenty vision of working along with us in the third sector.

A second question concerns operating such boats. Is a heritage boat steerer's qualification something that could be organised? There seems to be a need for some form of national co-ordination between heritage boat operators, and a meeting of all those involved in similar projects would, we feel, be of great use.

Comments to: Mike Clarke, L&LC Society, 8 Green Bank, Barnoldswick, BB18 6HX, 01282 850430, or to mike.clarke - zen.co.uk

[boatboss]

We The Chesterfield Canal Trust have just aquired Python ex BW shortened workboat it has cost the Trust nearly £7,000 to get up to BSS standard with Mooring, licence and Insurance also Python has had a re paint, we are now seeking Funding and Sponsorship to repay The Trust. The boat will be run as an educational resource tool and in winter will help keep canal rubbish free. In the school holidays she will attend Historic Rallies and events

There is still a lot of work to be done eg; Proper covers and crew cabin fit out as well as equipment for school activities such as staging plays all about canal life in the past. As The Trust is a training establishment for helmsmanship this will probably take place aboard Python.

Pete Ramsell Logistics Officer The Learning Boat

[Laurence Hogg]

At Canalscape-BCN we raised the money for "Barnet" from ourselves! Its a lot easier than applying for grants and it makes you very careful of how you spend it. May not be the way for all but it worked in our case. We train our own steerers to use the boat in a way we see fit and have found so far that many who appear to be qualified are useless on a heavy boat. I can say we took on a complete rookie who had never steered before and he handles the boat very well after only 4 weeks.

[PaddingtonBear]

Who or what is Canalscape-BCN?

[Liam]

CanalScape-BCN

[Laurence Hogg]

CanalScape-BCN

 

thanks Liam, there is also the society site (not yet finished) http://www.canalscape-bcn.org.uk/

[tony collins]

The Josher "Panther" (sister to "Python", see above) has been in the hands of the Coventry Canal Society for nearly fifteen years. Our original intention was to get our hands on a redundant powered flat, to use as a workboat. However, in the event we were offered Panther. When we first saw her she was on the bottom of the Birmingham and Fazeley in Aston, incidentally not far from where she was fitted out and where she was first based.

 

We have always used her as a workboat, carrying regular canal clearances and carrying kit to rallies and the like. She has also been seen at most Braunston Historic Boat parades and other event around the midlands. She was at first loaned to us at a peppercorn rent, but more recently the society bought her outright. Obviously over the years she has had repairs carried out both mechanically and to the hull. She has had two complete repaints as well as remedial work where necessary.

 

We take the view that the best way to preserve her is to use her and as far a we can see her future is safe with us. She is by no means original having been shortened (along with Python) in 1982 and having a rolled steel cabin fitted at the same time. But she is our link with the past and long may she be so.

 

During 2009, we were able to get Python and Panther together for the first time since 1942, they were built under the same works order by W J Yarwood for FMC, they attended Braunston, Blisworth and the 50th Anniversary of the reopening of Wyken Colliery Arm (Which wasn't actually an arm in the first instance). We were pleased to pass on the details of Python's whereabouts to our colleagues at the Chesterfield Canal Trust and "borrow" her before they officially took over the helm so to speak.

 

This story in by no means special , but it does illustrate that the preservation of some of the boats around the system CAN be carried out by interested parties. Jim Shead lists her as being "in private hands" so I feel that Lawrence Hogg need not be afraid that private ownership is something to be scared of. Like his organisation the society has mostly funded the costs of keeping Panther fit and well, ourselves although we have been blessed by several contributions from Tim Coglan at Braunston Marina for which we are very grateful.

 

On the matter of private ownership, Trevor Maggs has owned Corona longer than anyone else, including those for whom she was built, so it can and does work.

 

Tony.

 

Edit: Sorry I have jusy realised that I was attributing fears to Lawrence that he has not expressed. I must learn to concentrate more.

 

On the subject of training, certain people with in the society are trusted (have proved themselves capable of) taking Panther out, but any of our members are normally welcome to give handling her a try (under supervision) she is a lot heavier than most modern boats and therefore reacts differently. It is a skill which has to be learned but is not difficult.

Edited October 15, 2009 by tony collins

[alan_fincher]

On the matter of private ownership, Trevor Maggs has owned Corona longer than anyone else, including those for whom she was built, so it can and does work.

In similar vein, I believe that Renfrew is still owned by the people who bought her off Blue Line. The name David Morton rings a bell, though, I maybe have that wrong. I think that must mean they have owned it well over half it's total life.... Probably about 39 years, versus about 34 for it's carrying days, I'm thinking, (give or take!).

 

So a working boat can certainly survive very well in private hands as well. Renfrew was at the Braunston show this year, steered by the Whitlock's daughter, and with its former steerer Laura Carter also on board. Lovely boat, and I can remember photographing her circa 1971 when first in private hands, and thinking "I wish"!.

 

I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong, but suspect few of the GU boats, if any, have been owned by the same person/people for longer, other than those in the "tender care" of BW, (most of which have been near trashed....)

[PaddingtonBear]

Chertsey?

[Hairy-Neil]

I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong, but suspect few of the GU boats, if any, have been owned by the same person/people for longer, other than those in the "tender care" of BW, (most of which have been near trashed....)

 

Mercury? Forget now exactly when it was bought from BW, but 1960s so 40+ years ago. IIRC, Corona was previously owned by a school before TM so Mercury has also had less names in the log book, so to speak.

[Chertsey]

Chertsey?

Yes, Chertsey was owned by Richard Barnet from 1969 until his death earlier this year, and (notwithstanding a period of neglect while he was ill) appears to have been very well maintained. I haven't managed to piece together much detail of what it did under his ownership but it was very much a working boat, not a restoration project.

[Tim Lewis]

In similar vein, I believe that Renfrew is still owned by the people who bought her off Blue Line. The name David Morton rings a bell, though, I maybe have that wrong. I think that must mean they have owned it well over half it's total life.... Probably about 39 years, versus about 34 for it's carrying days, I'm thinking, (give or take!).

 

So a working boat can certainly survive very well in private hands as well. Renfrew was at the Braunston show this year, steered by the Whitlock's daughter, and with its former steerer Laura Carter also on board. Lovely boat, and I can remember photographing her circa 1971 when first in private hands, and thinking "I wish"!.

 

I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong, but suspect few of the GU boats, if any, have been owned by the same person/people for longer, other than those in the "tender care" of BW, (most of which have been near trashed....)

 

Fulbourne has been owned by the present group longer than any previous owner.

 

Tim

[Paul H]

Malcolm Braine has owned Cactus since 1963, Margaret Clarke has had Mercury since 1964, Beatty has been in the same family since 1968 and Arcturus must surely hold the record for being in the same family since 1958 (but its now sadly for sale.)

 

And not forgetting Graham Wigley of B&MCCC who has in a sense owned several working boats and been a boatman since 1965, giving him more years on the cut than the born and bred boatman who are still around.

 

Paul H

[pete harrison]

Yes, Chertsey was owned by Richard Barnet from 1969 until his death earlier this year, and (notwithstanding a period of neglect while he was ill) appears to have been very well maintained. I haven't managed to piece together much detail of what it did under his ownership but it was very much a working boat, not a restoration project.

 

CHERTSEY was laid up by the mid 1970's at Farmers Bridge, Birmingham. It later (by 16 April 1991 when I photographed it) moved to Les Allan's yard at Oldbury and did not move from there until after (or near to) Richard's death. Unfortunately you will find very little detail of how Richard Barnett used CHERTSEY post 1977 as he barely used it, and personally I would not say he looked after it particularly well with the "period of neglect" being well under way by the mid 1990's.

Edited October 16, 2009 by pete harrison

[Chertsey]

Let's hear it for benign neglect!

[churchward]

CHERTSEY was laid up by the mid 1970's at Farmers Bridge, Birmingham. It later (by 16 April 1991 when I photographed it) moved to Les Allan's yard at Oldbury and did not move from there until after (or near to) Richard's death. Unfortunately you will find very little detail of how Richard Barnett used CHERTSEY post 1977 as he barely used it, and personally I would not say he looked after it particularly well with the "period of neglect" being well under way by the mid 1990's.

That being the case or not at least it survives and in a good enough state and complete enough to be near original condition as I understand it. Now that it is in WWs ownership I expect it will be looked after she does seem committed to the boats future and appears to have every intention of getting it out and about on the cut so we can all get the opportunity to see an example of the class.

[Pluto]

CHERTSEY was laid up by the mid 1970's at Farmers Bridge, Birmingham. It later (by 16 April 1991 when I photographed it) moved to Les Allan's yard at Oldbury and did not move from there until after (or near to) Richard's death. Unfortunately you will find very little detail of how Richard Barnett used CHERTSEY post 1977 as he barely used it, and personally I would not say he looked after it particularly well with the "period of neglect" being well under way by the mid 1990's.

Chertsey was at Burscough for a couple of years around 1975/6 when Richard was working on either Everton or Farnworth, his L&LC boat. Everton and Farnworth had both been owned by the Bootle Barge Co, and there was some confusion at the time as to which was which.

 

There was a large pile of lock gates alongside the canal at Spencer's Bridge which Richard and I were allowed to scavenge, picking up some useful pieces of timber. We then had a tremendous fire to burn the remained and the scrap iron was loaded into Chertsey and sold.

[Graham_Robinson]

I see Waterways haved moved Norbury onto the Staffs and Worcs cut according to the location for The Ling.

I wonder therefore has anyone heard of any other junctions being moved around the system?

[pete harrison]

That being the case or not at least it survives and in a good enough state and complete enough to be near original condition as I understand it. Now that it is in WWs ownership I expect it will be looked after she does seem committed to the boats future and appears to have every intention of getting it out and about on the cut so we can all get the opportunity to see an example of the class.

 

Speaking as somebody who has seen, and photographed between 1990 and 2000, all that is left of the former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. fleet (as well as compiling a fairly comprehensive history of each boat) I fully agree with the above.

 

Having said that I neither try to influence or am particularly bothered about the way / condition in which an owner wishes to keep their privately owned boat. I know almost every 'historic' narrow boat still afloat, and many of their owners but I am not in the least bit romantic about these craft. I have been very fortunate to have both worked and owned 'historic' narrow boats in the past but this is something I no longer have a desire to do.

 

For the record CHERTSEY. like the vast majority of other 'historic' narrow boats is not particularly original, or at least not as original as when it left Harland & Wolff Ltd. in 1937. During the 1950's 'British Waterways' re-footed / re-bottomed / re-cabined / re-engined most of the boats in their carrying fleet and CHERTSEY was subjected to at least three of these. This does not take anything away from CHERTSEY, or any other former carrying boat as this is merely a part of their history and most boats have had these four levels of maintenance done again since. I think (but I am not completely sure) that Richard Barnett took CHERTSEY to Les Allens, Oldbury in about 1990 for the purpose of re-footing / re-bottoming / re-cabining for the second time.

 

My words were not intended to be read as a criticism of Richard Barnett or of the way he decided to keep CHERTSEY, just a statement of the way things were.

 

edited to add privately owned

Edited October 20, 2009 by pete harrison