Mooring

[Hieronymus Bosh]

oh..... excellent!.. thanks a lot people!

[Naughty Cal]

Though they are no use at reducing the rapid change in water depth, as a boat speeds past. Their principal function being to stop forward/backward motion, whilst allowing the boat to rise and fall with the tide, which is why they are not often used, on the canals.

 

However if more people did there would be far less bitching about boats moving when others pass. They do help reduce the effects to some extent.

[GSer]

One line each fore and aft set approx 45deg as per normal, place the boarding plank in an appropriate position, beat a stake through the end (there is a hole there) securing the plank to the bank, then tie the boat end of the plank to the two uprights of the cruiser stern this gives a stand off preventing the boat riding up the shallow shelves of the K&A, a spring is then laid between the bow or stern to the stake holding the end on the boarding plank. Job done!

 

Usually very secure even when speeding boats pass, thinking they know better, any problems suffered are normally bent or pulled pins again always the result of speeding boats.

 

This is just a general setup sometimes two standoffs are needed especially if the levels are unreliable. Or boat traffic is high and the levels are low.

 

Over 10 years cruising i'd be surprised if I have spent more than 20 days on proper pilings with good depth, whilst out and about.

 

Paul

Edited September 10, 2009 by GSer

[journeyperson]

Hi all.. still new, and reading like mad.. a very short answer would suffice please? rather than being told to go search? ummm... what are "springs" please?

 

Harry, make sure your boat is secure as well as securely moored, because if you painted it yourself it's going to be worth nicking!

[Jamboat]

"I think that a lot of the "Slow Down!" crowd would change their tune about what levels of boat movement are normal and acceptable if they spent one of the forthcoming mornings here on the Cam..."

 

Likewise up here on the Aire & Calder with the commercial traffic, we certainly know about it when Rix Owl goes past!

I don't think me shouting "slow down!" would go down too well......

[GSer]

"I think that a lot of the "Slow Down!" crowd would change their tune about what levels of boat movement are normal and acceptable if they spent one of the forthcoming mornings here on the Cam..."

 

Likewise up here on the Aire & Calder with the commercial traffic, we certainly know about it when Rix Owl goes past!

I don't think me shouting "slow down!" would go down too well......

 

 

I'm one of the 'slow down crowd' & if you think you are the only people to suffer from commercial traffic you are well wide of the mark.

 

Paul

[Naughty Cal]

You know what happened to the last narrowboater that had a run in with commercial traffic around here though. Trent gravel barge hit him (the boat that is not the skipper)

[Jamboat]

I'm one of the 'slow down crowd' & if you think you are the only people to suffer from commercial traffic you are well wide of the mark.

 

Paul

 

I don't think I was implying that we 'up north' are the only ones with commercial traffic!

& I certainly don't "suffer" at all, I'm glad to see the canals & navigations being used by industry & enjoying seeing these big barges at work.

[Naughty Cal]

I don't think I was implying that we 'up north' are the only ones with commercial traffic!

& I certainly don't "suffer" at all, I'm glad to see the canals & navigations being used by industry & enjoying seeing these big barges at work.

 

As we all are. They are just used to muddy ditches thats all.

[alan_fincher]

Personally, whilst I fully understand the principle of springs, I very seldom find them necessary in canal situations that we regularly encounter.

 

If it's a good straight edge, tightly tied ropes front and back, angled at very approximately 45 degrees will seldom permit more than an inch or two of forward backwards movement, and as long as some fenders are dropped between boat and edge we seldom do much more.

 

People regularly say "don't tie too tight", in case the level changes, but the reality is unless you are on a river section, or particularly short and troubled pound, I have never ever encountered a situation where I can actually tie ropes so tight that it results in a problem.

 

Most ropes will stretch a bit anyway, if put under tension, but the angles involved mean that (say) a 6" change in canal level means that the length of the rope needs to alter almost not at all.

 

Of course we use additional ropes and stakes, (I hate the word "pins"!), if conditions dictate, but extra stakes are usually only if the bank is soft or a funny shapes, and extra ropes tend to come out if forced to moor to rings or bollards that don't work with the length of the boat.

 

I used to be a fan of paper clips piling hooks, but since buying a very cheap set of what people now seem to call "goats chains" I have become a convert to those, and don't think the piling hooks ever came out after that.

 

I've never yet broken loose anywhere, (this boat or previous ones), despite some horribly soggy ground. If the ground really is a marsh, we usually move on and find a slightly less bog-like stretch.

[MartinClark]

 

The red lines are springs.

 

In the case of a narrowboat, the spring lines are usually more like this:

(From Jim Shead's site)

[Speedwheel]

They clang because the hook moves about in the armco, nothing to do with loose ropes, I wouldn't want them any tighter.

 

The hooks won't move if the ropes are tied tight.

[nb Innisfree]

Wet ground on the K&A - rear gangplank pinned on shore and on boat, bargepole holding front off, 6 mooring pins spring line from centre of boat to front and rear pins. Canals with pilings - easy, just two chains at 45 deg. + two small floating wheels between boat and pilings, no rocking or signs of passing boats. On narrow sections 4 small wheels on offside to keep 'orrible boats off. Always keep ropes tight to stop surging

[Night Hawk]

I can't bear using those wretched piling hook things...wouldn't trust 'em as far as I could throw them!

 

On Nighty we use chains fore and aft on pilings with ropes at around 30 deg to the bank with ropes fairly tight...more often than not we sit on the bottom of the canal before we can get the stern in.

 

Where there are mooring rings we may often use our chains as well...slightly more likely to deter scallywags looking to cut ropes if the first feet are chain rather than rope.

 

We use spikes at an angle bashed down to within a few inches of their lives so the 'D' is just above the grass...and ropes at 45 deg...we then put an empty doggy poo bag over them (no matter how dark it is, pedestrians always manage to avoid poo bags)...

 

However in our lovely marina, we have to have small loops of ropes tied thru the decking on the pontoon then tie up the boat using spare thin fender rope....as the pontoon is only 55 foot...and Nighty is 62 foot, we have to do all sorts of creative knotwork at the stern!

[barge sara]

People regularly say "don't tie too tight", in case the level changes, but the reality is unless you are on a river section, or particularly short and troubled pound, I have never ever encountered a situation where I can actually tie ropes so tight that it results in a problem.

 

The pound on the Aire and Calder bounded by Goole, Pollington, and Bramwith locks is some 10 miles of seriously wide waterway and includes a connection to several acres of sailing lakes near New Junction. Even so it can rise and fall by as much as half a metre over a few hours depending on the operation of Ocean Lock at Goole.

An extreme example maybe but I wouldn't moor with the assumption that water level will stay as it is in any canal....

[PhilR]

I reckon safe/secure mooring techniques should depend upon whether you are tying the boat to pins or rings/bollards/piling.

 

For an overnight stop or pub stop I am happy with just a bow and stern line both angled out or both angled in - as long as they are tied to a ring etc. If I have to use pins I usually use a short spring on the stern (the bow and stern lines are both long enough for this without using separate ropes.

 

On my home mooring I have a total of 6 lines. I use old oddments of cast-off rope for this - often with several splices in each. I leave these permanently tied ashore and with eye splices at the boat end. Experience has taught me that if I use decent rope it is too much of a temptation to the local kids to *borrow* them for rope swings. When I go out boating, if anyone nicks my mooring lines it isn't really a problem.

 

Phil

[mayalld]

However if more people did there would be far less bitching about boats moving when others pass. They do help reduce the effects to some extent.

 

No, they really don't.

 

On narrow and shallow channels, the cause of movement isn't the bow wave that springs WILL help to mitigate against.

 

The cause here is that the passing boat is pushing water behind itself, which it is gathering from in front of itself. On wider and deeper waters this just circulates right back around and under the boat without a problem.

 

On shallow, narrow canals, it builds up behind the the boat.

 

If you watch the water levels ahead of and behind a narrowboat at cruising speed, the level immediately in front of the boat can be as much as 6 inches down on normal water level, whilst the level behind is as much as 3 inches up.

 

So, when a boat passes at speed, the following happens;

• First, as the other boat approaches, the water level drops gradually, and the moored boat is drawn towards the oncoming boat. The distant mooring rope comes under tension, and the close one slackens slightly.
  
• Then, as the boat passes, the water level rapidly goes up 9 inches, first at the end with the slackest rope, until the rope at that end checks its progress, and the rise in the water progresses towards the other end.
  
• At the same time, the moored boat begins to be pulled to follow the passing boat, bringing the rope that was closest to the passing boat at the start into tension, pulling that end down, at the same time as the water drops 3 inches.
  

This whole thing causes a quite violent fore and aft pitch, and because it tends to bring ropes that are not horizontal into excess tension causes side to side roll as well.

[Naughty Cal]

Interesting to here some different techniques. It does worry me slightly that some take the view that on a canal water levels wont change. Water levels can change on any watercourse and (in my view) this should be taken account of when setting the mooring ropes.

 

We are lucky on our home mooring and have floating pontoons, so can rope the boat up as tight to the pontoon as we like. Even so we leave enough slack for the boat to move freely of the pontoon. This leaves the boat free to move when the kids are messing around in the dinghies and (god forbid this doesnt happen again) in the extreme event move freely of the boat tied to the same jetty should it sink. This brought on by the sinking of a boat up the pontoon which almost brought its neighbouring vessel down with it as it was tied very tightly to the same jetty. We still use fore and aft ropes and set springs to tie to the jetty as the wind is often blowing strongly across the marina so it reduces the movement of the boat here. Our fore and aft ropes are long enough to do this so we only use the two ropes nearest the mooring.

 

Mooring on rivers and tidal waterways brings about a whole different mooring technique for which we deloy all four moorings ropes. The two on the opposite side of the boat to the mooring are set front and aft with the two ropes nearest the mooring crossed over and secured (i.e front rope passed towards the rear of the boat and secured, rear rope passed towards the front and secured) This ensures that the boat has enough length in the ropes to accomodate the change in water levels whilst still holding it close to the banks edge.

 

No, they really don't.

 

On narrow and shallow channels, the cause of movement isn't the bow wave that springs WILL help to mitigate against.

 

The cause here is that the passing boat is pushing water behind itself, which it is gathering from in front of itself. On wider and deeper waters this just circulates right back around and under the boat without a problem.

 

On shallow, narrow canals, it builds up behind the the boat.

 

If you watch the water levels ahead of and behind a narrowboat at cruising speed, the level immediately in front of the boat can be as much as 6 inches down on normal water level, whilst the level behind is as much as 3 inches up.

 

So, when a boat passes at speed, the following happens;

• First, as the other boat approaches, the water level drops gradually, and the moored boat is drawn towards the oncoming boat. The distant mooring rope comes under tension, and the close one slackens slightly.
  
• Then, as the boat passes, the water level rapidly goes up 9 inches, first at the end with the slackest rope, until the rope at that end checks its progress, and the rise in the water progresses towards the other end.
  
• At the same time, the moored boat begins to be pulled to follow the passing boat, bringing the rope that was closest to the passing boat at the start into tension, pulling that end down, at the same time as the water drops 3 inches.
  

This whole thing causes a quite violent fore and aft pitch, and because it tends to bring ropes that are not horizontal into excess tension causes side to side roll as well.

 

This happens on any waterway. The process may be exagerated on a shallow canal but it isnt just related to shallow waters. If you watch any boat moving through water this occurs. If anything narrowboats are better designed for the inland waterways and create less of a difference in water level. Watch a planing hull move througn water at slow speeds. They create a very large water level difference due to the hull being designed for higher speeds. And if you want to see or feel this process properly take your boat out onto the Ouse and around Goole when the big ships are arriving or departing. The bow wave from those hits you about a quarter mile before you reach the boat and is around 6ft depending on the ship and its speed at the time. The water level difference along one of those is massive. Not advisable to moor anywhere along that stretch.

[alan_fincher]

(Null post removed)

Edited September 11, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Naughty Cal]

I already said that

[alan_fincher]

Interesting to here some different techniques. It does worry me slightly that some take the view that on a canal water levels wont change. Water levels can change on any watercourse and (in my view) this should be taken account of when setting the mooring ropes.

I've been tying up boats on canals for many a year now, (albeit with a long break in the middle), and have never, ever experienced problems by tying as tight as I can. Nor have I ever seen problems happen to anybody else who has a watertight boat.

 

The applied mathematics involved, (trigonometry, I guess), will easily demonstrate that in a normal tie up, a significant level change makes only marginal difference to the length of rope required.

 

Most ropes have some stretch, anyway.

 

I'm sure someone somewhere can post details of an odd incident where loose mooring saved a boat, but then someone can always find the story of someone who was saved by not wearing a seatbelt, can't they!

 

A lot of people seem to think that leaving slack in mooring ropes on canals is a "good" idea. If you don't want to move backwards and forwards each time a boat passes, (at just about any speed), it demonstrably is not. If anybody doesn't believe me, please don't argue here - please just go and find a stretch of canal where a tightly moored boat is next to a loosely moored one, with boats and bank being similar, and observe what happens as boats pass.

 

In my view, anyone who has chosen to moor with a foot or so of slack in their ropes really should not complain until they have sorted that out.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I do try to spot boats that are very badly tied up, and "move" them as little as possible. But I do not pass everything on the assumption that it might be loose tied on a length of wet string, (or as sometimes happens, not actually anchored other than by a middle rope, despite not being occupied. :lol: )

Edited September 11, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Mac of Cygnet]

Phylis's original pic was of her moored near the bridge out of West Stockwith basin. Can't help thinking she's a bit pessimistic thinking she might be chucked about by passing boats there. Physically bashed by another cruiser blown about in the wind is more likely.

 

Mac

[carlt]

I've been typing up boats on canals for many a year now,

Wouldn't it be easier to get a notebook?

 

 

Sorry....coat?

[journeyperson]

(or as sometimes happens, not actually anchored other than by a middle rope, despite not being occupied. )

 

I've hung on to a couple of lengths of old rope for the next time I come across an unoccupied boat in the middle of nowhere, drifting across the canal on it's one remaining rope. I've seen this two or three times this year.

[Naughty Cal]

Phylis's original pic was of her moored near the bridge out of West Stockwith basin. Can't help thinking she's a bit pessimistic thinking she might be chucked about by passing boats there. Physically bashed by another cruiser blown about in the wind is more likely.

 

Mac

 

It was the only picture i could find that had the ropes in full view at the time. But the picture shows how we typically moor the boat everytime we moor her up. It may seem OTT to some but we have yet to have a moan about the boat being moved excessively or breaking loose or hanging or being too slack.

 

EDITTED TO ADD:

That Cal doesnt sit well againsT a mooring if just tied fore and aft due to the shape of the hull, she tends to sit arse hanging out if tied at two points.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Phylis