New marinas

[dor]

We frequently hear about the shortage of moorings, and as a result BW are intent on seeing a large number of new marinas built and support the applications regardless.

 

Here in South Cheshire we had a new marina at Swanley for 350 boats opened a couple of years ago. Another one for 160 boats a few miles away is opening shortly and another one near Chester, for 350 boats, is also due to open in the first part of 2009. A marina proposal for another 350 boats at Wrenbury has been withdrawn following huge local opposition and another application is currently being considered for a marina for 160 boats a few miles away near Audlem.

 

The existing Swanley marina is not full.

 

When people say there is a demand for moorings, I think two factors need to be taken into consideration; location and cost. I daresay in Oxfordshire for instance, there would be a good demand for marinas. As for cost, I currently pay just over £1000 per year (including prompt payment discount) for an offside online mooring near Nantwich. A mooring at Swanley would have been nearly £3000. I find it difficult to believe that there is a demand for another 600 berths in this area at those sort of prices. Perhaps the increased competition will see the price of berths drop significantly, however this will put the viability of the marinas under pressure.

 

If the marina at Audlem goes ahead (and there is enormous local opposition to it, not least because the developers have lied through their teeth in the application) BW will remove all the present online moorings at Audlem. I can only see this increasing bridge-hopping as people who would pay for a moderate cost mooring will baulk at paying marina prices.

 

So what do we think? Is the demand for marinas being overplayed?

[Athy]

As a Middle Levels moorer I am somewhat distanced from the new marina scene. But, if BW is encouraging new marinas in an attempt to reduce the (sometimes excessive) number of linear moorers, then they will not do so by commissionning only luxury marinas because, as Dor says, the cost will put people off. What's needed is a few more marinas in the Ford Escort, or even Skoda, bracket, rather than the BMW-level ones which seem to be the norm for new developments.

[denboy]

I think BW are trying to force all boaters (corral`d) into a marina that way they still get revenue without having to do any sort of maintenance for online moorers .after all boaters are the thorn in the side of BW they do not get any problems with ramblers anglers and cycleists

[John Orentas]

This topic comes up quite regurarly but for the life of me I cannot understand why any boaters are opposed to the creation of new marinas, more mooring places will inevitably mean lower costs, it is a simple supply and demand issue..

 

Mooring costs are greater in the south of the country, not because they are plentifull but because they are scarce, marina prices have been forced up over the years because the owners find that they can always fill empty berths and there is even some competition for them, therefore the prices go up..

 

It will always be in the interests of boaters that there should be a surplus of moorings with owners attempting to fill spare places rather than the other way round, and don't think the existance of on line moorings changes the basic facts, market forces are market forces.

Edited December 27, 2008 by John Orentas

[LEO]

So what do we think? Is the demand for marinas being overplayed?

,

 

Yes and no, BW support them because they get a 'stonkingly' high connection fee and future revenues from each one. BW hope it will clear the canal of linear moorings (which can be a bit tedious to pass at times).

 

No - because moorings charges are much too high and there are too many berths available, many of which remain unfilled. Marinas are expensive to develop which is possibly one reason for the high charges.

Prospective owners feel they are an easy way to make money, but in reality marinas are the golf clubs courses of the 1990's, which saw the market flooded with courses and prices for joining/playing fell quickly, so much so that many are now struggling financially.

 

In some instances these sporting/leisure facilities are a good way to 'launder' money.

 

The boating 'bubble' will burst soon as owners just do not have the spare cash available to own and run a canal boat - unless charges are pegged and made more reasonable, especially on the moorings front.

 

I am on a BW linear mooring at £30 a metre p.an (PPDis), no facilities and no maintenance from BW!!.

 

The marinas currently being developed are really huge boat parks, filled with floating cottages (few of the boats move far), it would be preferable if the size of marinas could be limited to say 100 boats which would have less of an impact on the environment, but as developers genarally try to 'cash in' by adding residential units and associated leisure facilities anything less than 300 berths may not be considered viable.

 

It's going to be an interesting few years watching how things develop, I would loved to see the feasibility studies the developers on the marinas incorporated into their original development plans and there must be some worried Bankers around who have helped fund these expensive 'puddles'.

 

BW have put on hold plans to develop 2 marinas on the Southern GU.

 

Leo

[alan_fincher]

BW have put on hold plans to develop 2 marinas on the Southern GU.

 

Leo

Which ones are those, please, Leo ?

[LEO]

Which ones are those, please, Leo ?

 

There were 2 applications in recently, at Grove/Ivinghoe.

 

Leo

[cotswoldsman]

The more marinas there are the better. If this helps bring down the cost of boating and encourage more people to buy boats and discover the canals the better. If this also means less linear mooring then so be it.

[seaandland]

There is talk of a marina to be built on the Caldon nr Fine Feathers Endon. Some exploratory work is going on in January

[stellar]

Maybe it is time for some like-minded boaters to join together and buy out a struggling marina - we could then run it to suit boaters requirements. However, with the number of strops that go on in this forum, getting a like-minded group together might be difficult.

[cotswoldsman]

Maybe it is time for some like-minded boaters to join together and buy out a struggling marina - we could then run it to suit boaters requirements. However, with the number of strops that go on in this forum, getting a like-minded group together might be difficult.

 

Wow that would be a great way to go bankrupt!!

[Nightwatch]

I wrote to BW some six months ago asking for confirmation of plans for a marina close to Cropredy on the Southern Oxford.

 

The response was denial.

 

Martyn

[David Schweizer]

Whilst I agree with those who suggest that more marinas could bring the cost of mooring down, or at least stabalize the present costs, I am less than happy with BW's policy of closing on line moorings when more marina spaces become available.

 

For several years, I happily moored on the towpath near Stockton on the GU, and willingly paid BW a modest amount each year for the privilige, Suddenly within a few miles, a new Marina opens, and two existing ones quadruple their size resulting in BW anouncing (over the Phone!!) that my mooring is to close. I was expected to either move to a tatty dingy dark BW mooring with rings only 30ft apart for the same fee, or apply for a mooring at one of the nearby marinas at fouyr times the cost. I was not happy.

 

Fortuanately I bumped into an old colleague from the past at the Braunston Historic Boat Show, who told me of an off side vacancy next to his mooring exactly the righy length for my boat, and after a few phone calls I managed to secure it albeit with a 30% rise in costs. If I had not been able to secure an alternative mooring, I could well have been forced to become a bridge hopper or dispose of the boat.

 

So there is a downside to new marinas for some people, and wheras in some places closure would result in less moored boats to slow everyone else down, in my case there were five Permitted Moorers in a half mile straight stretach of 14 day moorings, which are rearely full. So apart from five un-needed extra temporary moorings, there has been no

advantage to other boaters either.

Edited December 28, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Billypownall]

Maybe it is time for some like-minded boaters to join together and buy out a struggling marina - we could then run it to suit boaters requirements. However, with the number of strops that go on in this forum, getting a like-minded group together might be difficult.

 

It might be even more difficuilt to find the struggling marina. Let me know if you find one I have been looking for ages.

[AlanH]

,

 

Yes and no, BW support them because they get a 'stonkingly' high connection fee and future revenues from each one. BW hope it will clear the canal of linear moorings (which can be a bit tedious to pass at times).

But they will be losing revenue from online moorers as they move into marinas. I am sure that the revenue raised from an online mooring will be more than the connection fee per boat paid by marinas.

 

The market will determine how many marinas are needed.

[ditchcrawler]

There were 2 applications in recently, at Grove/Ivinghoe.

 

Leo

I read there was to be one at Yelvertoft, we have just come through there and there is no sign of it

[Wrinkley]

That's strange, i was just thinking of Yevertoft marina and checked it out. It is apparently due to be started early 2009 for completion and use in 2010. I wounder if the economic down turn has changed the plans? I do hope not as I will be looking for a mooring around this area (Leicester Line) later in 2009.

 

Wrinkely

[msgreen44]

If the marina at Audlem goes ahead (and there is enormous local opposition to it, not least because the developers have lied through their teeth in the application) BW will remove all the present online moorings at Audlem. I can only see this increasing bridge-hopping as people who would pay for a moderate cost mooring will baulk at paying marina prices.

 

So what do we think? Is the demand for marinas being overplayed?

 

 

'Enormous local opposition'! - the majority of objections are from an organised group of nearby 'NIMBYs'.

 

The 'developers' are a respected local farming family and have not 'lied through their teeth'.

 

Won't the already existing marina developments in the area have already satisfied BW's criteria for removing online moorings at Audlem any way?

[Naughty Cal]

They start work on the Chesterfield Canal basin later this year. Odd as the canal isnt navigable along its entire length!

[madcat]

What is needed is a range of provision especially the cheaper end of the market because otherwise a lot of people will be forced off the water especially pensioners. I would be prepared to mooch about rather than give up and be forced out, I dont mind anyone being better off than me but in a modern civilised country there must be adequate provision made for the less well off too.

[estwdjhn]

'Enormous local opposition'! - the majority of objections are from an organised group of nearby 'NIMBYs'.

 

The 'developers' are a respected local farming family and have not 'lied through their teeth'.

 

Won't the already existing marina developments in the area have already satisfied BW's criteria for removing online moorings at Audlem any way?

 

I don't like to question your motives, but new poster, first post on this topic... do you have a vested interest perchance?

[Lesd]

Which ones are those, please, Leo ?

 

Hi Leo,

Interesting, was the Grove one at Grove up near Leighton and at The Grove down near Watford ? But you say they have pulled the plans ?

Rgds

Les

[dor]

The 'developers' are a respected local farming family and have not 'lied through their teeth'.

 

No, the "respected" local family are the land owners. The developers have lied through their teeth as is quite clear if you read some of the proffesional objections rather than the local residents. And why shouldn't the local residents complain? They have sound objections; the land owners are well out of the way on the other side of the canal!

[msgreen44]

I don't like to question your motives, but new poster, first post on this topic... do you have a vested interest perchance?

 

I am related by marriage to the applicants, but am totally unconnected to the application - I've obtained most of the info on the application from Crewe & Nantwich online planning. Other than some sympathy for my relative I have no other motive or axe to grind.

[msgreen44]

No, the "respected" local family are the land owners. The developers have lied through their teeth as is quite clear if you read some of the proffesional objections rather than the local residents. And why shouldn't the local residents complain? They have sound objections; the land owners are well out of the way on the other side of the canal!

 

The planners have all the info including that submitted by the professionals brought in by the objectors - it is now for them to consider and decide. The info is on on the Crewe & Nantwich online planning - I can only suggest that anyone interested carefully reads and compares all views.

 

The Farm is actually slightly nearer to the proposed marina than the local residents concerned.

 

The only time I have visited the site was on Boxing day and to be perfectly honest I could hardly see the residents houses through the hedgerows even then. Anyone can walk along the canal now and see for themselves.

Edited January 5, 2009 by msgreen44