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Eberspacher or Webasto


Nickalex

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It must be time to buy a new toy...with winter coming it could be an air blower central heating unit.

 

It's to fit a 70' trad nb (Journeyman) (http://home.btconnect.com/nickalex/journeyman/)

 

I figured I'd mount it ib the Engine room with closeable outlets in the 1) the cabin 2) the head and 3) the saloon....probably about a 35ft run.

 

Which is best Webasto or Eberspacher ?

 

Any pitfalls ?

 

TIA

Nick Alex

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Nck

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

As this is your first post, I will be gentle and you were not to know. :lol:

 

Search (top right) for either (Erbaspacher or Webasto) and when you have read all the posts, you will know the the answer. Perhaps

 

Most boat systems are of the 'wet' radiator type.

 

Warning: reading all the posts, should take less than about a month, especially if you speed read. :lol:

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Which is best Webasto or Eberspacher ?

 

Judging by some recent threads on the forum it seems that both are crap! :lol:

 

I have an eberspacher DW10 water heater to rads that has been fine for 3 years (touch wood), but it only gets light use (an hour or two a day in winter), because I have a solid fuel stove as my main form of heating.

 

Really neither of these diesel heaters are recommended for liveaboards, and apparently both have issues with red diesel, but if you're not living aboard and want to choose one I would go for the Webasto as they are much more user serviceable.

Edited by blackrose
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Judging by some recent threads on the forum it seems that both are crap! :lol:

 

I have an eberspacher that has been fine for 3 years (touch wood), but it only gets light use (an hour or two a day in winter), because I have a solid fuel stove as my main form of heating.

 

Really neither of these diesel heaters are recommended for liveaboards, and apparently both have issues with red diesel, but if you're not living aboard and want to choose one I would go for the Webasto as they are much more user serviceable.

 

 

And seem to have a good level of available service agents......as they are widly used on HGV and Coach vehicles.

 

My last boast had a wet webasto system, It ran fine as long as I regularly replaced the fuel filter every 6 months....I now have a solid fuel stove with back boiler on a convection system.....Its the dogs ......

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It must be time to buy a new toy...with winter coming it could be an air blower central heating unit.

 

It's to fit a 70' trad nb (Journeyman) (http://home.btconnect.com/nickalex/journeyman/)

 

I figured I'd mount it ib the Engine room with closeable outlets in the 1) the cabin 2) the head and 3) the saloon....probably about a 35ft run.

 

Which is best Webasto or Eberspacher ?

 

Any pitfalls ?

 

TIA

Nick Alex

 

Nick Alex

 

According to the posts on this forum (which you will soon establish for yourself when you troll through all that the search will have thrown up) problems do seem to occur with these heaters.

I would recommend that you look at a Hurricane, they work on a different system of combustion and do not develop the carbonising that the others are reported to be troubled with. If you get to understand how the different heater systems work, you can then draw your own conclusions.

More expensive than most but, speaking from a personal point of view, more reliable. In the five years that we have had ours it has only failed once and that was my fault.

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Guest TerryL
It must be time to buy a new toy...with winter coming it could be an air blower central heating unit.

 

It's to fit a 70' trad nb (Journeyman) (http://home.btconnect.com/nickalex/journeyman/)

 

I figured I'd mount it ib the Engine room with closeable outlets in the 1) the cabin 2) the head and 3) the saloon....probably about a 35ft run.

 

Which is best Webasto or Eberspacher ?

 

Any pitfalls ?

 

TIA

Nick Alex

 

I've dragged this up from another post to give you an idea of a modern approach to avoid the usual problems and reduce running costs, depends on your use however but I'd recommend this if living onboard.

 

One of my specialities is oil fired heating both domestic and marine. I would avoid all the marine type heaters completely and fit the smallest modern domestic condensing oil fired boiler. This will be type approved and be as efficient as is possible and will be cheaper to run than any LPG boiler and without the hassle or safety issues. You can save further space by specifing a combination condensing boiler which will also take care of all your hot water demands. You will need to run it on kerosene because of the corrosive effects of gas oil on the secondary heat exchanger but a non condensing high efficiency boiler will run happily on diesel or gas oil with only slightly higher fuel consumption. If you do a bit of googling you will see how efficient they are and all domestic boilers can be checked. This will also be much cheaper than the marine stuff and you can always find someone to fix it quickly.

 

The boiler will be about the size of a domestic undercounter fridge or a boiler house version without the case can be fitted in an engine room etc. Pressure jet burners such as fitted to the domestic boiler are used extensively around the world in many applications and are well proven, gas oil is burned under high pressure through a jet to atomise it very finely for very efficient mixing with air and producing an excellent clean burn, most marine burners cannot do this or maintain a clean burn. You might also like to consider an oil fired pressure jet range cooker such as Stanley or Rayburn and save further space! I could supply you with new or reconditioned.

 

Gas oil by the way does not effect marine heaters with sulphur, it doesn't have enough for that and this was just an assumption by someone, the fuel is the same as before and they have always had problems. The problem is to do with the crude and inefficient way they work which causes heavy carbon deposits which is unburnt fuel, although they will work better on kerosene because it vaporises better. Diesel and kerosene last much, much longer than petrol but diesel can suffer from "the diesel bug", this is usually a result of water, heat and bacteria feeding on the diesel which can block filters.

 

I also suggest you insulate your barge as well as you possibly can to conserve heat and also help keep it cool. Fit modern domestic heating controls to modern standards such as a programmer, room thermostat and thermostatic radiator valves and use a domestic installer preferably OFTEC registered not the boat yard! You are not required to comply with building regulations of course but in the absence anything better for boats these will give you a very high standard of heating and efficiency comparable with living in a similar size house. You will not regret it.

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Nick Alex

 

According to the posts on this forum (which you will soon establish for yourself when you troll through all that the search will have thrown up) problems do seem to occur with these heaters.

I would recommend that you look at a Hurricane, they work on a different system of combustion and do not develop the carbonising that the others are reported to be troubled with. If you get to understand how the different heater systems work, you can then draw your own conclusions.

More expensive than most but, speaking from a personal point of view, more reliable. In the five years that we have had ours it has only failed once and that was my fault.

 

Sorry to crash in here could you let me know where you got your Hurricane from and the cost please as iam having a nb built

and iam a bit wary about webesto/espatcher

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Sorry to crash in here could you let me know where you got your Hurricane from and the cost please as iam having a nb built

and iam a bit wary about webesto/espatcher

 

Don't know where Big Col got his, but the only supplier I know of is Calcutt Boats. See http://www.calcuttboats.com/hurricane.html

 

I personally have a webasto (thermotop 'e'), which so far (touch wood) has been fine, but it dosen't get a lot of use as I don't live on the boat and in any event also have a solid fuel stove. In fact it only really gets used to heat water when I am on the boat but not cruising.

 

Peter

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as gary said, avoid specific blown air systems. the air pipe runs are usually too long on a narrow boat.

 

the advantage with blown air is you'll feel the effect of the heat more quickly but it actually takes longer to heat the materials of the boat. open a couple of windows before everything is warm and woosh, all your warm air is gone.

 

if you want 'some' blown air the best thing to do is use a 'wet' heater like the hydronic or thermo c, and use a small matrix heater in place of one of the rads. make sure its a matrix with a switchable fan that you can control. Kalori do a good range, from Kuranda and one or two other suppliers.

 

in terms of eberspacher vs webasto, the internal designs/prinicipals are similar so in spite of all the bickering between users and advocates of each brand, theres not really much to choose between them. as per other threads on here, 'red diesel', gas oil etc will produce more bi-products than white, road fuel or whatever you want to call it when you burn it, so servicing these heaters properly and regularly is critical. follow the installation manual, dont just pop it in place of your old heater, and its worth getting someone with 'experience' to check the plumbing.

 

I'm pretty sure Eberspacher have a bigger dealer network so spares and servicing should be easier to sort out. if you're going to fit a compact heater like Eberspacher or Webasto, dont get sucked into the 'bigger is better' train of thought. the smallest hydronic heater is enough to heat a 70 foot narrowboat or 50 foot widebeam. make sure your flow and return pipes are 22mm and the 15mm bits are just where you've T'd for rads. also if your calorifier is the first place the hot water goes, consider fitting an appliance valve so you can slightly restrict the flow through it, other wise the hot water can just go through the coil in the cylinder and straight back to the heater, fooling it into thinking the system is up to temp and subsequently shutting down or cycling before all the rads get hot. you wont get this sort of 'insider stuff' from your average plumber...

 

if you live on board its worth having a multifuel or diesel stove, possibly with a back boiler as well as the heater (not plumbed into the same closed system). if you need to service the heater when its -5 outside and could be facing a few days of 'down time', its just good sense to have something as back up.

 

I'd be a little wary about using 'domestic' heaters on board a boat, any warranty will usually be invalidated and they're not really desgined to 'rock about', even a little bit.

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Guest TerryL
I'd be a little wary about using 'domestic' heaters on board a boat, any warranty will usually be invalidated and they're not really desgined to 'rock about', even a little bit.

 

What sort of domestic heaters are you refering to?

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Mikuni are more tolerant of red diesel/rubbish fuel than either Webasto or Eberspacher - which are spin off lorry cab heaters. Better still is a pressure jet boiler and a domestic one will do - a Merlin 2000 I was looking at would have been OK and UK manufacturer has sold many to vessels without problems. For a small PJ Holland Warmte do a couple of small boilers inc a new 12kw micro - http://www.maritimebooster.nl/pdf/en_folder.pdf

No idea of prices.

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  • 1 month later...
Nick Alex

 

According to the posts on this forum (which you will soon establish for yourself when you troll through all that the search will have thrown up) problems do seem to occur with these heaters.

I would recommend that you look at a Hurricane, they work on a different system of combustion and do not develop the carbonising that the others are reported to be troubled with. If you get to understand how the different heater systems work, you can then draw your own conclusions.

More expensive than most but, speaking from a personal point of view, more reliable. In the five years that we have had ours it has only failed once and that was my fault.

 

 

Having read the vast amount of posts regarding the debate mikuni/eberspacher/all others - can anyone give me an idea of what a reasonable charge would be to service an 18 month old Mikuni MX40. Mine stopped working three days ago, it has been used three times a day for 1/2 hour sessions to heat water and 1 rad in the bathroom, for about six months. Now that I need it (liveaboard) for the winter......................................!

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Hi,

 

Don't rule out a Kabola - I've only had mine two months so I can't make any great claims aside for the fact that it does the job very bloody fast! Not being technically minded, I remember lots of umming and ahhing going on when it came to the heating systems, which degenerated into urrs and slurrs as the beer increased, but the conclusion was concluded as a Kabola. It's 7.5 kw which is good as we have full radiators and not just fin-rads to heat.

 

I had a webasto before (5kw) which was forever breaking down.

 

Edited to add, the Kabola is very quiet whereas some sound like they are brewing up a gale-force wind, apparently.

Edited by NiceNarrowboat
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I wouldn't recommend blown air systems on a boat, have been there and done it at a customers insistence and it didn't work.

 

The main problem is the volume of warm air you need to produce, how to distribute it around the boat and how quickly it escapes if you open a door.

 

I tend to agree. We have an Eberspacher (D4) on our boat with hot air outlets in the bedroom cabin and forward into the main living area (conventional layout) with the unit at the back with the engine. Not my choice as it is a second-hand boat. We rarely use it as it doesn't heat the forward area very well at all and if on all evening the bedroom area will be too hot and it seems difficult to get a balance. We prefer to use our solid fuel stove.

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  • 8 years later...

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