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norm 'n' Q

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Hi all,

Could you take a look at this link for us please.

We are going to view this nb.

It would be our first boat (we have had various holidays in the past on narrow boats)

After advice on the forum we are trying to look at as many different boats as possible.

What are your thoughts on price, condition etc of this one?

Thanks

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=88005

 

Hope the link works

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Hi..

 

Well at least the seller has shown a good number of reasonable quality pics.

 

also good that they show the boat out of the water -

 

those pics seem to show a chalked number on the hull which I take to be the hull thickness by a surveyor using ultrasonic test (my assumption only)

 

Suggest that you go in and look and check all details carefully ( Buyers beware etc and ask for any documentation, copy of the survey (in full) - if in doubt and you still like then spend out for your own survey, to get re-assurance that its relatively sound on the key issues..

but otherwise looks like a reasonable buy for the money...

 

That said - I would also strongly reccommend that you look at least andother 6 boats (goto a marina / brokerage like whilton - you will quickly guage what the quality of the finish of the boat/ fittings in against other - it wll give you a guide...

 

sounds like a bank holiday weekend plan...

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I cannot comment on whether the price is reasonable for a 14 year old Evans and Sons boat in the current climate.

There are a considerable number of photos, which is good, however, there are some things that I would be watching for. This looks like a 'self fit out' - generally considered much less good than a professional fit out. I would want to look carefully at:

 

- The strange, slightly sagging board covering something on the ceiling in one of the photos along the lounge towards the kitchen - what is this covering? What might be lurking behind? Why is it sagging?

- Have a look at the state of the Belfast sink - it has a large chip missing from the bottom edge at the front - is the rest in reasonable condition?

- I don't know about diesel Rayburns - is the grey box bolted on to the end of it in the low photo some kind of thermostat? How does that work?

- The same photo shows some kind of gas hose trailing on the opposite side - presumably for a small portable gas hob as heating up the entire Rayburn to boil a kettle might be too much (expensive, inefficient, take too long, etc). Portable gas appliances are covered by the BSS - I don't know about them, we don't have any portable appliances on our boat, so I didn't bother to read them when we had our boat BSS in May. However, since it is portable, might it have been (re)introduced since the BSS? Not sure about the trailing gas hose either.

- Some of the doorways look 'interesting' - especially the one through to the engine room.

- What is happening with the side doors? May just be a board to keep drafts out, but I'd want to take it out and check behind - Evans and Sons tend to leak through the side doors.

- The bed looks nice and big - but how the $%&* are you supposed to get to the engine room? Just through the rear deck? This could considerably reduce room to work on the engine. This also means that if you have a fire in the front of the boat it could restrict your exit at the back.

- check the 'dog box'/'pigeon box' for leaks especially as it is immediately over the bed

- watch out for water damage, etc around all sinks, baths, etc. The photo shows something slightly odd about the tiling on the wall immediately above the toilet - dunno what this is, I can't make it out

OH took one look at the photo and said "Evans and Sons" - ours is 1995, so watch out for the things that we have had problems with:

 

- the weed hatch is diabolical to get to. You will need to lift the weed hatch at some time, check it out. Remember you may need to do it with a hot engine next to you too.

- we had to have the swim tank replaced as it was not sufficiently cooling the engine, the original was a box about 4 inches thick, with only 4 square feet against the swim, and no baffles - see this gallery for photos of what it used to look like.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...=si&img=493

 

I'm sure plenty of other people can offer advice about what to look for too.

Good luck

Cath

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One further thought....

 

The advert says.....

 

"The insulation through out the boat is up to a high standard"

 

but doesn't say with what.

 

It's hard to tell, but assuming the windows are normal narrowboat style single glazed ones, there appears to be a pretty narrow wooden trim around the inside edge of each, and this sits flush with the cabin linings.

 

It's possible therefore that the gap between the back of the cabin linings and the inside of the cabin steel work is no more than an inch, possibly less.

 

That doesn't leave a lot of space for insulation.

 

Spray-foamed boats were not that common 14 years ago, so it's more likely the insulation is polystyrene or "rockwool". In either of those last two cases, I'm wondering if there is room for enough of the stuff to form a good insulation layer.

 

Trying to sort out an under-insulated boat would be nigh on impossible without stripping the insides out and starting again, so it's well worth understanding what this boat is insulated with, and how much of it.

 

Stating the obvious, perhaps, but as the radiators are not installed, this boat seems to have no other heat source in it than the diesel Rayburn.

 

Alan

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That said - I would also strongly reccommend that you look at least andother 6 boats (goto a marina / brokerage like whilton - you will quickly guage what the quality of the finish of the boat/ fittings in against other - it wll give you a guide...

 

sounds like a bank holiday weekend plan...

 

Thanks Strads, looks that way :lol:

 

 

OH took one look at the photo and said "Evans and Sons" - ours is 1995, so watch out for the things that we have had problems with:

 

- the weed hatch is diabolical to get to. You will need to lift the weed hatch at some time, check it out. Remember you may need to do it with a hot engine next to you too.

- we had to have the swim tank replaced as it was not sufficiently cooling the engine, the original was a box about 4 inches thick, with only 4 square feet against the swim, and no baffles - see this gallery for photos of what it used to look like.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...=si&img=493

 

I'm sure plenty of other people can offer advice about what to look for too.

Good luck

Cath

 

Cheers for that Cath and thank your other half for me would you.

 

 

 

One further thought....

 

The advert says.....

 

"The insulation through out the boat is up to a high standard"

 

but doesn't say with what.

 

It's hard to tell, but assuming the windows are normal narrowboat style single glazed ones, there appears to be a pretty narrow wooden trim around the inside edge of each, and this sits flush with the cabin linings.

 

It's possible therefore that the gap between the back of the cabin linings and the inside of the cabin steel work is no more than an inch, possibly less.

 

That doesn't leave a lot of space for insulation.

 

Spray-foamed boats were not that common 14 years ago, so it's more likely the insulation is polystyrene or "rockwool". In either of those last two cases, I'm wondering if there is room for enough of the stuff to form a good insulation layer.

 

Trying to sort out an under-insulated boat would be nigh on impossible without stripping the insides out and starting again, so it's well worth understanding what this boat is insulated with, and how much of it.

 

Stating the obvious, perhaps, but as the radiators are not installed, this boat seems to have no other heat source in it than the diesel Rayburn.

 

Alan

 

Thanks Alan good advice there.

 

I'll report back when we have had a good look at her.

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Cheers for that Cath and thank your other half for me would you.

I would, but that is indeed the very next thing that you yourself did.

 

Thanks Alan good advice there.

:lol: Sorry, you weren't to know!

Cath

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I would, but that is indeed the very next thing that you yourself did.

 

 

:lol: Sorry, you weren't to know!

Cath

 

 

I should have realised :lol:

Iv'e been following your recent travels on here :lol:

 

 

Looks like a very nice boat to me Norm, obviously subject to verification as others have said.. Good price too but don't let that stop you from haggling hard..

 

It's a buyers market!

 

 

Thanks John i'll try

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Hello Norm,

 

I've had a quick squint at the Rayburn on the photos and a few things come to mind.

 

A diesel-burning Rayburn is fine on a boat but check the burner type carefully as old style oil burners were not designed to burn heavy oil (diesel - 35sec) but rather 28sec oil (sometimes kerosene or mazout). This means that if the burner is to run efficiently on heavier oil it would need to be pre-warmed to reduce the viscosity of the oil. There are modified burners on the market that will do this (pressure jet types) and Rayburns, fitted with the correct flue and this burner, will work very well on a narrowboat. The old style burners were not the most fuel efficient either so see if you can get some diesel consumption figures from the current owner. If the stove was originally a solid fuel/wood type (and I think it was originally a solid fuel Royal) it is possible to refit a firebox to convert to 'will-burn-anything-you-throw-in-it' Rayburn but there are implications for flue length (Rayburn recommend 4.5 m of flue or an EBD fan assist (see the Exhausto website - it's an RSV09 fan you need). That said, experience tells us that you really don't need anything like a 4.5m flue to get a Rayburn working well and I think that Rob McLean at BSS was consulting with heating engineers to get a more sensible recommendation as part of the next set of BSS regs.

 

Even if the modified burner hasn't fitted, the burner will work at reduced efficiency but watch for sooting up and it's important to ensure that the stove is serviced every 6 months. The flue should be measured to ensure it's the correct length for effective exhaust and inspected carefully for cracks and jointing problems - Aga Rayburn technical department at Broseley are very helpful. It goes beyond saying that all burners that are not running efficiently present an increased danger of carbon monoxide leakage. Get an good quality alarm and test it regularly. The box on the side is the diesel controller - diesel Rayburns heat up quite quite quickly (ooh, in about an hour and half or so and therefore are marginally faster than a 12v kettle!).

 

I was peering at the panel Catrin mentioned in the kitchen and I wonder if this is where a former roof vent or chimney has been. The details say that some former vent holes have been blocked with glass fibre and I wonder if this is an internal cover panel beginning to fail through water ingress. Personally, I would check the ventilation and then if not needed for ventilation I would get them welded up pronto. I second Catrin's point about the leaky side hatches, my friend's boat is also an Evan's and it leaks like a sieve if the rain is in the wrong direction.

 

The interior looks like a self-fit out which would reduce the value of the boat but at this price I'm not sure it's that critical, just make sure it's fit for purpose and robustly built. Check that the pumps and fridge are working (and the Rayburn too!) and get a good look at the bilge - it should be dry. I'm not qualified to comment about the engine but I would like more detail about the engine and service records if any. Access to the engine room is a major issue and of course, from tiller to lav to kitchen when you're out for a day. If there no direct access to the boat from the stern how will your guests get on walking the gunwhales or scrabbling over the roof when you're out on the cut when somebody fancies a cup of tea or beeeer?!

 

It generally looks okay to me though but I would check very carefully - get a really good look at the survey and commission one yourself - they're not expensive when you consider the cost of the boat. The Evans shells and boats I've come up against have all been solid, chunky boats but with niggles. Do haggle very hard should you decide to go for it.

 

Good luck, Jill

 

edited becos I am a bit thick when it comes to syntax......

Edited by wrigglefingers
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I think its good value and can be made much better with some work and spending on it. I think you should see it as it could be rather than as it is now. It certainly needs a good clean and tidy up on the inside, I am always surprised that so many people try and sell boats without preparing them for sale, principally remove their personal junk, clean it, and do some basic DIY to make it more presentable, eg the fender hanging off the bow. From looking at the photos not much updating has been done since it was built, but as I say it has potential and with £5k spending on the inside the value to resell out to be about £30k in my opinion

 

Charles

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decent shell builder might be wrong but i think evans & sons mainly did sail away shells for owner fit outs (bro in laws got one)

I think they did both.

 

Ours is a professional fit-out, (by Les Wilson, who are still around), although it is only a professional fit-out by the (lower) standards of the day.

 

You wouldn't get away with it now, even at the budget end.

 

I've no doubt the one here is not a professional fit-out though!

 

I agree with Charles that it appears to have the potential to be much more. If, however, the insulation or lining has been skimped, then I think you get to the point where a sailaway would start to be a better prospect.

 

Look at it for what it can be, but be careful about rose tintrd spectacles too!

 

Alan

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Well ladies and gentlemen,

Iv'e done it !!!

We went and viewed Friday, had a good look around asked loads of questions i don't think he was expecting.

We were going to put an offer in then decided to go back yesterday and have a trip out on her.

What can i say. Handled great, engine sounds sweet, my 12 year old son loves it. (he had a turn on the tiller)

Few issues with the internal fit out but nothing that we can't fix.

Well we haggled (thanks John Orentas) and i wrote a cheque out.

Life is sweet at the moment, can't wait to get out and about.

 

I am a very happy chappy :lol:

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