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Anyway, one major difference between liveaboards and leisure boaters is that in general, the former are pretty incompetent at operating their boats, preferring a static life, whereas the latter are expert at whizzing through lock flights expeditiously etc. One of the reason why the former have so much difficulty steering etc is that they can't see beyond the piles of stuff on the roof, and worry that the slightest knock, bump, or boat passing at more than 0.5mph will disturb the carefully heaped piles of personal belongings inside, which might topple and injure their children sleeping in the wardrobe.

Just an aside to this issue, it does make a mockery of the recent call by government, for tech companies to deliberately create backdoors and holes in their encryption and operating systems, because government agencies can't read bad peoples messages. If this is the damage that can be created by an inadvertent flaw in the system, then it makes no sense to deliberately make them, or will the government compensate innocent people, when they suffer losses because bad people exploit the governments built in weaknesses.

Sorry for wandering off topic. It's not just food that's changed over the years. I wrote the following probably about ten years ago. When compulsory wearing of seat belts in the front of a car (never mind in the back) was floated there was total outcry. “If I want to catapult myself head first through my own windscreen and spend the rest of my life dribbling and saying Num Num in the corner whilst tugging at the hem of my dressing gown, then I should bloody well be allowed to!” One bloke I know in Derby even went to the trouble of having a cardigan knitted in a fetching beige colour with a diagonal black stripe across the chest so it looked as if he was wearing a seat belt! I remember asking him if he’d considered having an overcoat made in the shape of a coffin, he squared himself up set his jaw and muttered that he might ….. if he wanted to … so there! Today, however, if someone under the age of 25 climbs into your car they panic if you put the key in the ignition before they’ve located the end of the belt. Peanuts! KP used to make a tiny bag that sold for 2d. (real money) just big enough to put in your child’s lunch box. Peanuts were encouraged they are cheap, full of protein and rich in fibre.Try offering nuts to anyone under 25, the expression on their face would indicate that you’d just suggested they should perform an indecent act with their Great Aunt Gladys. “I can’t stand them!” They’ll tell you. Truth is they’ve never tried one. The fear of a child choking on a nut led society to convince children that gobbling a handful of peanuts was as acceptable as sucking a dog jobbie. If you really want to go for the jackpot then thrust an open packet of the best salted variety under their nose as they climb into the back of your car just after you’ve hidden the seat belt and are revving the engine! I promise they’ll never ask you again if you are available to just run them over to their friend’s house 30 miles away. Plus you will enjoy the advantage of all their friends looking at you in a most suspicious manner, because word will get round very quickly, that you are so weird. Don’t panic though for every cloud has a silver lining! And this one is pure gold, yes sir-reee …… 24 karat, nickel plated, double hinged, cast iron riveted GOLD!!!!It’s name? ……….. Sell by Date. All hail the great benefactor who gave us sell by dates. Sometimes this treasure goes by the name of Best Before it matters not a jot, a rose by any other name and all that jazz. So how does this work then? Well you can thank the retail trade’s fixation about being sued for poisoning their customers for this little beauty. This will enable you to stop the free loading youth of today from robbing you blind. They’ll stop visiting at meal times, or grunting a Neanderthal greeting at you as they pillage your fridge at any other time. All this whilst clearing the way for you to take full advantage of the “cheap shelf” at Sainsbury’s To Boot!!!! Anyone born after 1980 has been programmed that food magically becomes deadly poison two seconds after the date on the package expires. I urge you to do nothing to educate them otherwise. We, who know different have learnt the hard way, they must do the same. We have learnt to check food by looking at it, sniffing it, sticking a finger in it and carefully tasting it before deciding that green, hairy yoghurt with enough whiff to bend glass and a flavour capable of recharging car batteries has probably passed it. The date doesn’t come into it, it never did, it never will. If the manufacturers could predicate the date of expiry so accurately they wouldn’t be making yoghurt they’d be raking it in selling life insurance …. or coffins! But don’t tell the youngsters, they carefully examine the date code on your box of Belgian chocs and whine that they expire at the weekend; do you think they’ll be alright? There’s no need to lie though, confidently affirm that they’ll be fine. State that you’ve been eating stuff all your life that’s been on the verge of going out of date. They’ll slowly look you up and down, the expression on their faces none too complimentary, but they’ll return your chocs unmolested. It’s even worth investing in a gummed label printer and running off your own “Best Before Tomorrow” Stickers. Shove them on everything you’ve got, you’ll save a fortune so you will! However, it doesn’t end there; don’t forget the bargain shelves in Sainsbury’s. You may have to fight your way through the aisles festooned with young families stocking up on frozen pizzas, pre-packed shepherd pies and chicken curries all cleverly conjured out of preformed unrecognisable chunks of something, but it’s worth the effort. For out the back near the dog food you’ll find the stand that every OAP dreams of. Stacked high are the dented tins and packs of scoff that no young person will ever venture near. They might as well be sporting large day-glo labels showing a skull and cross bones, but they don’t need to for the tiny lettering showing a date three days hence is more than enough to keep the wrinklies happy and the future of this country resigned to eating stodge that bears as much resemblance to the photo on the packet as I do to the next winner of X Factor. I can find the “To Clear Shelf” in any supermarket blindfolded. All you have to do is listen for aged voices complaining that all they can find is Fillet Steak and Scottish Salmon AGAIN! “I know it’s reduced down to only 10p a pound but I’ve been living off the stuff for months now” They’ll whine.“And the cat won’t even look at lobster any more!” They go on.

Maybe there are some who are "Transboatual" (a bit like a Transsexual "a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex"). They feel they are liveaboards but are trapped in 'bricks & mortar' whilst on the waiting list for 'the operation'.

I think Moderators should do whatever Dan requires of them. If that causes you to have a hissy then you should either do it quietly or go elsewhere. Trying to garner support isn't going to cut any mustard here.

I'd echo Alan's post...plus I would check the availability of wide beam berths. If you want to explore and travel....and what's the point of having a boat if you don't....then a narrowboats is much better for a number of reasons...not least is that it fits the network much better in more places!.....watching two wide beams meet on most of the GU is a fun thing to watch unless you are one of them. If you just want a static home then think about a caravan!

I say: I haven't a clue what you are on about. Do us a favour and provide a link to the thread so we can comment.

I say it is the mods' job to moderate Daniel's site. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to play.

Jeez, lighten up a bit!!! It gives a broad brush impression, in my personal opinion. I may well be wrong about that even, but who gives a toss (other than you and Bruce!)?

Swerving off topic a sec, someone here once mentioned they were discussing terms of endearment used by politicians for their SOs. Nigel Farage came under discussion and given his wife is German, they decided he probably calls her "Hun".

Its a blend of Trojan and paranoid for people who are overly obsessive with batteries

I don't think it is as simple as that. Some liveaboards rarely if ever move out of the marina, so have relatively little experience of handling a boat or operating locks and swing bridges, whereas some leisure boaters and genuine ccer's cover many hundreds of hours of boating per year. Also just how much experience of emptying a bog or filling a water tank do you need to do it competently? Surely after a few times, there is little else to learn. I think pigeonholing people is divisive and pointless unless the purpose for gathering the information is clearly stated and understood by all before anyone comlletes the poll. We are all boaters, and if we allow CRT or anyone else to divide us then we are all weaker for it.

I'd love to ride on a bridge and I'm 70 years old, so it must be irresistible for kids. Rather than be a miserable old git I'd turn a blind eye.

Please could we have as established and public forum policy that Mods do not pronounce or act with their Moderator's hat upon any topic that they have posted in as an ordinary forum member. That should be left to other Mods. Ideally Mods would be low-volume posters.

You can give greenies to your own posts.

Well, if you had done some basic reasearch you would have found out that Dan is the site owner and you could have taken your grievances up with him rather than the open forum. Infact i notice Dan is already reading this thread.

No that's not it. IIRC the fact is that several CMing members here are in a permanent state of pouring hot water from a kettle, and therefore guaranteed to spill it and burn themselves should a boat pass them at ANY speed.

Oh do stop being such a precious princess.

AIUI from threads about the K&A and the like, there is also a population of boats without a home mooring which are leisure boats being moved around sufficiently, possibly, to meet the CC guidelines. It seems clear that, as I suspected, the situation is far too complex to fit a simple binary divide. And I utterly reject the idea that only current permanent 24/7/365 liveaboards know anything about the issues discussed in any of the threads on this forum. Its great strength is the diversity of experience and knowledge possessed by its members. Tell you what, Mike, let's do a deal. I won't do any gas fitting and you stay off the social science research

Again, impossible to implement without shutting down most of the Internet. Maybe you don't realise quite how much encryption is used.

If uttered by the female half of the partnership it would be "subordinate oik".

The engine mounts used by beta are claimed to provide a good earth. If not then you can bolt a braided wire between the engine block and the hull earth point. As to soldering, the wire must be big enough to carry the fault current, so a little bolt soldered on is a bad idea. I drilled a 10mm hole into the engine bearer and used an m10 bolt to earth my 90mm2 negative cable. I used 90mm2 for wiring up the inverter and so ordered an extra metre for the earth wire.

Don't know if he's still doing it but Des Fforde (other half of the lady author) was a pilot and a fair bit cheaper than the "official" Severn pilots. He can be found via the Boat Safety Examiner web site. 01453750544 Martin/

I live on a 32ft narrowbeam GRP boat, and all of the problems you mention are not necessarily so. Mine has an inboard diesel engine; from my boat hunting experience it tends to be that ones with outboards are because they've gone for the easier cheaper option of an outboard when the inboard engine has needed to be replaced. You do still get plenty of second hand boats with inboard engines though. I also have a solid fuel stove (and have seen lots of GRP boats that also have them). How durable they are with regard to bumps etc really depends on the make and GRP itself. Some older GRP boats in particular can be tough as old boots because they tended to make the GRP pretty thick-I bump mine about a fair bit; mostly it just bounces. Even where you do need to take a bit of care, especially with things like locks etc, it's not going to sink because you bump about a bit. You can certainly get a lot more for your money with a GRP boat; there's no way I'd have got a half decent steel narrowboat for anything near what I paid for my boat. It would be a good idea still to get the hull checked out-GRP does not guarantee that if it's floating you have no problems, in particular GRP can have issues with osmosis.

You can actually moor ON the Rochdale Canal.

On past experience, probably decided none of us know what we are talking about and will carry on regardless. Be back next year complaining about needing to move.

I'm paranoid. I know I am because my psychiatrist told me I was. Well ok he didn't actually say so, but I could see that's what he was thinking....

I think the poll might be distorted by those who are aware of the context, and mrsmelly's remarks about "hobby boaters".

My experience suggests this is old thinking and not actually the case, Mr Sea Dog. For long battery life it iturns out to be necessary to recharge them immediately they have been discharged at all, regardless of the depth of discharge. The board's battery gurus seem to generally accept the rapid sulphation and loss of performance of my own new Trojanoids was caused by me not recharging them daily. I specified a set big enough to last a week between charges whilst not dropping below 50% (admittedly not the 60% you recommend, but 40%, 50%, 60% seems up for debate), and sulphation began immediately. I looked after them well in every way otherwise, but the need to recharge promptly after any discharge managed to pass me by.

Why ? A member here has a VERY nice 27 foot GRP boat for sale WITH a diesel inboard (the same as a narrowboat) at a price of £4500, leaving you plenty of cash to 'personalise it' as you wish. For anyone starting out on a low budget I would always recommend a GRP boat - you get so much more for your money. A cheap steel NB is cheap for a reason and normally because it needs so much spending on it (maybe on 'stuff' that the surveyor misses and you later find it was not such a 'good buy').

Obviously there should be a way to distinguish full time liveaboards from leisure boaters. The opinions of full timers carry more authority and should count for more in e.g. discussions about whether an new poster should move onto the canals. Alternatively their views on things like politics should be given less weight. They could be indicted with a star perhaps. or a wheelbarrow symbol. Marina dwellers could be indicated with a caravan symbol? I think this would be a step in the right direction.

Buy frozen meat and place it in the cool box with other food, that should last a couple of days then you can eat the meat that was frozen, after cooking it of cause.

I don't see letting the children ride on the bridge as giving in.

Never fails to amaze me your thread here W. great fabrication skills with the torch too.

Its easy. Make sure your SF stove is out & completely cooled down and then place your ecofan on top of it. It will then run backwards and the reverse flow will cool down anything you place in front of it.

When people ask why I don't like the K&A this is one of the many reasons I give. More than once we have found locals all along the canal to be surly and unfriendly. I can't think of any other part of the network that displays this characteristic. Not even Nuneaton..

I was going to suggest what used to be called "acorn nuts" but those look taller. Try brian popes in Stockport 0161 480 8322. He has all sorts of odd imperial oddball stuff. Or there's a non ferrous material supplier in Salford who will sell you the hex bar, to run them up yourself. Like others have pointed out, UNC ones will do, if you can't get whit, though the A/F size will be different. 3/8 whit is 0·600 A/F. Whereas 3/8 UNC is 9/16 A/F . Doesn't really matter if your replacing them all.