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If my boat was there I would be leaving as soon as I can. What a crook! After pouring scorn on one of his customers and making digs about them not reading the conditions before signing on the dotted line, he is now trying to make a case that he didn't seem to be aware of the conditions he was signing up to. So what if another marina in the area doesn't have to pay a NAA; P Lillie knew what he was signing for. Anyone setting up a business should have a sound business model- if they haven't then they deserve to go broke. Regrettably they can then set up another company and continue their scam. And in this case it is C&RT and boaters that lose out in favour of this rather irksome little man.

Indeed. We had a shocking year in 2012 - it was well documented that for many reasons holidaymakers chose to go places other than the canals. 2010 wasn't much better as the canal closed for most of the summer. Did we blame BW and say that our hire licenses should be adjusted because in a 30 week season (not forgetting we pay for a license which is 52 weeks potential hiring) our boats only went out for 12 weeks? Did we say that 'BW shouldn't have allowed that extra hire company down the cut'? No of course we didn't. What we did was take a long hard look at the business, work out where savings could be made and moved forward.

An explanation may be in order. My courses are aimed either at those who would like to paint their own boat for the satisfaction of doing it and for those who couldn`t afford to pay a professional. This usually precludes those with huge amounts of money to throw at their latest craze - be it a boat or a vintage car. A good course may have 10 paying students and a couple of Boat Museum trainees/volunteers who don`t pay. So, all in all it cannot be alllowed to become too pricey or my target audience, particularly those with little money, may not come. . It is in fact among the very cheapest weekend courses run by an experienced tutor at , shall we say less than a three figure sum per person. Sometimes there may be only 6 paying customers! I pay room rent, travel costs , refreshment costs for the pupils and my own living expenses - being 300 miles from home ! So WITHOUT PAYING FOR MAGAZINE ADVERTS. how much do you think I make for two days driving, two days teaching and prep. time? I simply cannot afford mainstream advertising as things are. The answer is probably to put the price up - but I`m trying not to if I can blag a bit of free publicity wherever I can find it ! This may be wrong of me and less than proper business practice - so I shall, until there is a universally fair way forward, not compromise the integrity of this forum a third time! Incidentally - for those who don`t know - I count myself a BOAT painter. I`m NOT someone who paints roses and castles on anything other than boats when appropriate and on items used by the working boats. I felt the need to say that ! Dave Moore will understand !

Wouldn't that put the fire out?

Never judge a sausage by its skin..... that's Lincolnshire wisdom.

I don't really know how your criminal statutes are written, but I think a good case could be made for criminal fraud on the part of Paul Lillie by anyone who loses any money they prepaid to him for long-term leases. At some point in time, apparently some years back, Mr. Lillie made a decision to default on his obligations to CRT. Mr. Lillie knew full well what the ultimate ramifications of him defaulting on those payments would be - closure of access. Mr. Lillie sold boaters 20 - 30 years of access to the marina, knowing full well that, because of his decision to never pay the access fees, he only actually had 2-3 years worth of access to sell. That is criminal fraud. If criminal fraud is proved, the injured parties could sue Lillie personally and, when they won, take away from him the LLC's that own the marina. The burden of proof is even less in a civil action, and Mr. Lillie stands to lose everything even if criminal fraud is not charged or proved. Courts and juries frown on criminal fraud and often award large judgments against those who commit it. The long-term leases that some people bought will be wiped out the bankruptcy. You know darn good and well that, if his Phoenix scam goes through, Paul Lillie is going to look those boaters in the eye and not only tell them that their leasehold is no more, but try to sell them at the same time. A person like him deserves to be in prison. I sincerely hope those boaters who were/will be burned by him go after him with a vengeance. edited for spelling

It's a learning boat. The teacher holds one, and the student the other.?

You seem quite comfortable to blame everyone else; C&RT, the economy, CC'ers, other long and well established marina's, for the lack of your company fulfilling it's contractual obligations. And reading between the lines you seem to be saying, well it didn't quite work out like I thought it would the first time round - I've found a loop hole so I don't have to pay what's owed, and can simply start over with a clean slate where you HOPE?? to be able to fulfill any future contract

The ducks moved out last October.

When I was first looking into buying a boat I lived in the Pillings Lock area. I would regularly go out walking on the towpath talking to boaters and almost EVERYBODY told me to steer well clear of Pillings Lock Marina. That was on the basis of the management and the way the place was run, rather than location or anything else. Perhaps the key to My Lilly filling those vacant berths and making more money, would be to address why his Marina has such a bad reputation.

Is the shark really that big?

Using the rationale Mr Lillie makes regarding the agreed repayment (which he would have been aware of before signing) I wonder how flexible or reasonable he would be if a moorer who had signed a mooring agreement said they were unable to pay the mooring fee agreed as due to "market forces" they weren't able to pay the full amount but could pay a reduced amount. Looking at the FB post earlier on I guess I know the answer...... When I looked for a mooring Pillings was on my short list but after meeting with him, the things he said just didn't add up. Luckily I chose Mercia which was slightly more expensive but with a management team that put boaters first IMO. Reading his comments on here have confirmed my decision.

A connection agreement allows a marina operator to fill their marina with water supplied by CRT and allows boats to float in that CRT owned water. This needs to be satisfied, even if that boat never passes through the marina entrance onto CRT controlled waterways, so it is about more than "a right of way onto CRT waters". The operator should of course be factoring what he has to pay to CRT into what they charge for the berths, and using that to pay CRT. The amount involved would have been quite clear when a decision was taken that it was a good economic proposition to build that marina. Of course a problem then arises if you can't let enough berths for enough money to be able to meet these charges, and still break even. Wouldn't it be great if every business in the country that felt it was going to be viable when it started up, but ended up finding it was not, was simply able to say to those with whom it jt had entered into a commercial agreement "sorry I thought I was going to be able to pay what we agreed, but I can't, so this is what I think it is reasonable I pay you instead". In that case there would be no failed businesses would there?

Tom, The NAA was with Quorn Marina Properties Ltd NOT Pilling's Lock Marina Ltd and to answer your question directly, Yes QMP Ltd is going into Liquidation this week. Regards Paul

Most of these tips apply equally to living in a house except that a boat is, I think, exempt from the clean air act so can burn wood and other non-smokeless fuels as you could in a country cottage or even in many towns. On a boat you do not have cheap mains gas, electricity, water, telephone or sewage disposal. This is where the greatest savings can be made: Even if you enjoy collecting wood and especialy if you use diesel or gas for heating - Double-glazing, even the temporary cling-film type, reduces cold draughts and allows a lower temperature to be comfortable. This and any other insulation also reduces the fuel required to maintain a specific air temperature. Ideally, radiators should be sited under windows - also true for a double-glazed house. Unless you can plan a shower an hour after the engine is started, an instantaneous water heater is more convenient and more economical than stored hot water. Few use solar water heating but a simple black container on the roof can provide hot water for washing in the summer. It is important to use seasoned wood. When wandering through the woods, maybe walking the dog, stack fallen branches vertically against a tree and collect them later, when they are dry. Even a small (100W) solar electricity panel could keep the batteries of a leisure boat charged and extend the life of the batteries. A live-aboard or continuous cruiser may benefit from 500W or more with an MMPT controller. Generally, most canal moorings are sheltered and wind-power does not live up to expectations. Without a doubt tethering a mobile 'phone on the Three 'One Plan' is the cheapest for data and they also have the cheapest PAYG call tariff - but check coverage. You can save a lot of water with a 'submarine style' shower: turn shower on, get wet, turn shower off, soap & scrub, shower on, rinse (maybe luxuriate in tingling hot spray for 30 seconds). Save all the water you waste waiting for the hot water to run hot. Install valves that return the cool water to the main tank or collect the cool water in containers. Don't throw the dirty dishwater away, use it to soak & pre-wash the next batch of washing-up. It is a pity that water purifying sytems are so expensive to run, otherwise we could be self-sufficient for at least washing water. Men can pee in the bushes or into a container but taken to the extreme this can make emptying a Porta-Potti difficult. Using the public, work or Supermarket loo will also reduce the frequency of potti tipping and pump-outs. Others have reported that when frozen-in they deposited their faeces on newspaper and incinerated them in the solid fuel stove. LED lights are essential. Turn off lights that you do not need. For a quick trip to the other end of the boat or outside use an LED torch or head torch powered by re-chargeable (NI-Mh) batteries. LED illuminated TVs and Laptop screens are much more efficient than their mercury discharge lamp predecessors. A 20 inch TV is adequate for most inland boats, maybe a 10 inch in the bed area. Alan, apologies if anyone is offended.

Hi Alan, I'd have to say I don't actually agree with your views regarding CRT looking after the the affected boaters with moorings, if it does indeed come to locking/blocking the entrance to the marina. I believe C&RT have actually done their bit in notifying said boaters of the planned action. Boater's pay a license fee to C&RT to allow them to cruise on the rivers and canals they control. By C&RT taking the time and effort to notify the people based at Pillings Lock Marina of the proposed action I think they have met their obligation to the boaters ensuring they have the information needed so they can still have access to partake of their licenses. From my understanding, and please correct me if I've misunderstood; this marina was in agreement with C&RT to pay them for a right of way onto C&RT waters. They have neglected to pay this and C&RT are now forcing the issue of payment in the most feasible way they can without incurring court costs (using money which could be spent on maintenance of the canals). If anyone has a duty to assist the boaters who have moorings at Pillings, I would hazard to say it should lay with the people at Pillings Marina. The people who received the mooring fee paid by the boaters. Let's say you rent a house, and the gas for the fireplace and stove is included in the price of the rent. If the gas was turned off because the land lord didn't pay the gas bill, you would expect the land lord to sort it out and more than likely in some way to be compensated for your inconvenience. Or at least that's how I would see it. Yes, I would hope that the gas company would drop something through the letter box before the cut off, advising me it was going to happen; in which case I would be right onto the land lord. I don't profess to be an expert in any shape or form on these matters, this is simply my opinion after reading this thread and the links to the press releases. B~

One of the reasons it's easier to keep our ex working boat looking shiny (besides Dave Moore's immaculate paint job) is that it's not painted below the gunwales. Traditionally and for practical reasons working boats only painted their cabins and cants. Many modern boats (our previous boat included) have paint not blacking in the area below the gunwales most likely to get scratches! seems like asking for trouble.

shiney,rusty hippy hutch sinker or stinker if there paying a liecence it all makes the waterways viable.....i worry sometimes its all becoming an elitest playground....iv met some great people with all sorts of boats in all sorts of conditions........

It definitely needs to be strongly fixed, and there's for extreme accuracy so a threaded adjustment isn't needed. I can tell you that if they aren't strongly attached, they make one hell of a clatter when they break off and fall into the prop

I thought I'd already described one good reason for using fenders in my last post, but I guess you'll only see what you want to see Richard. If you want to look down on me for using fenders then that's your problem. I don't look down on anyone who doesn't want to use fenders - it's their boat and I respect their right to cruise as they see fit. I just wish they would extend me the same courtesy.

christ! people,chill out. the op was just trying to contribute a bit of useful information and all they get back is a load of the usual old superior ''this is how i do it and everything else is wrong'' rubbish.this fender thing came up a few weeks ago and as i said then the locks here in Ireland are wide and you need fenders down to stop your boat getting smacked around if an inexperienced person is working the lock.so the tip makes good sense. this is the WORLD wide web,stop thinking that the world revolves around the 70 feet of narrow canal that you occupy at any given time.lighten up and stop being such a bunch of boring anoraks.it just turns new people off contributing to the forum. paul

If someone is CC-ing...and finds a job in a town...and decides to cruise the area...but doesnt earn enough to pay a mooring fee + council tax.....what are they supposed to do...give up the job? If someone is married, with kids, and goes through a divorce, and the wife settles in a certain town, and he has to pay a load of maintenance..but still wants to see his kids...and cant afford a mooring and council tax....what is he supposed to do.....give up seeing his kids on a weekly basis...by cruising to the other end of the country... Sometimes people have no idea of the real reasons people might cruise in one area... I think some leniency is needed....as long as a boater is being SENSIBLE and not blocking a visitor mooring....he should be able to go where he likes...and moor anywhere on the towpath...without any worries....which is probably what most do anyway. So what if you see them going to the mooring near Tesco once a week If you have a widebeam in Manchester, and dont have a marina mooring, I'd say you are quite limited to where you could travel...and still hold down a job, or get your kids to a school, unless you stayed along a restricted part of the network. You have the Ashton (too narrow), the Bridgewater (limited to 7day licence), the Rochdale (up the Pennines?), the ship canal (£££), and one other which heads off to nowhere. There's only 1 marina in the area for widebeams, so you'd have no choice but to move around the area and try not hog any popular spots. So the CC-ing rules are quite impractical in some respects......of course many will disagree but that's fine too.